drum corps are not bands

[MikeD]

Oh come on. A top tier DCI corps could mow the field with any band in the land. Show me a band that can top the Blue Devils or Crown and then tell me what planet they're from, because it's not the one I live on.

Where did Matt remotely say anything like that...in fact, he said the opposite...he said this..

..I've not yet seen a high school band that could win at DCI, and likely never will, but I've seen performances that could contend for a spot in finals...

[MikeD]

In my drum corps experience in the early 60's, there were band kids, and there were drum corps kids. Very, very few kids did both. The band folks considered drum corps folks as musically illiterate, and pseudo musicians who played primitive instruments; and who could only sound half way descent after learning a piece by rote and practicing it a gazillion times. Drum corps kids thought that the band kids were geeks, studied all the time, had no discipline, pop, snap, and no testicular fortitude. In terms of evolution, todays' drum corps kids are band kids. It's virtually impossibe for a kid to come off the street and join a drum corps without having some band experience.

Even the little corps I marched with from 64-67 had some band kids...me among them...all three of our snares were also in school bands....the GSC corps I marched with in 68-69 was 35-40% kids who were in school bands. Garfield 70-72 was 40+% band kids too.

[Piper]

Where did Matt remotely say anything like that...in fact, he said the opposite...he said this..

Sure Mike. Now go back and read the quote that you quoted :

"..I've not yet seen a high school band that could win at DCI, and likely never will, but I've seen performances that could contend for a spot in finals..."

Maybe I should have majored in english literature, because I don't know how else to interpret that.

[Paq]

In my drum corps experience in the early 60's, there were band kids, and there were drum corps kids. Very, very few kids did both. Drum corps kids thought that the band kids were geeks, had no discipline, pop, snap, and no testicular fortitude. In terms of evolution, todays' drum corps kids are band kids. It's virtually impossibe for a kid to come off the street and join a drum corps without having some band experience.

I'll second this insofar as drum corps as I knew it in Canada up thru the late 70s. Since for the most part Canada does not have marching bands, this, in my opinion would be a major reason there are almost no drum corps left in Canada anymore.

[Piper]

I'll second this insofar as drum corps as I knew it in Canada up thru the late 70s. Since for the most part Canada does not have marching bands, this, in my opinion would be a major reason there are almost no drum corps left in Canada anymore.

Yeah. That kinda sucks. I used to look forward to seeing the Canadian Corps come south in the summer just to see what they brought to the table. I truely miss that.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Piper

[Jofus]

Squares and rectangles. All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. When you see a four aided polygon with 4 right angles and four equal sides you call it a square. Its more than just a revangle.

Same with corps vs band.

[MikeD]

Sure Mike. Now go back and read the quote that you quoted :

"..I've not yet seen a high school band that could win at DCI, and likely never will, but I've seen performances that could contend for a spot in finals..."

Maybe I should have majored in english literature, because I don't know how else to interpret that.

You said this:

Show me a band that can top the Blue Devils or Crown

He said this...

I've not yet seen a high school band that could win at DCI, and likely never will

followed by this:

contend for a spot in finals

Where did he remotely state that there are bands that could come in first or second at DCI finals, as you asked? as I said...he said the opposite.

To paraphrase him, and hopefully he'll correct me if I'm wrong:

1) There are no HS bands that could win at DCI WC finals, nor will there ever be.

2) There are bands that in his view have a shot at making a finals spot.

[HockeyDad]

Coming at it from the opposite direction - how are drum corps Not bands? Only in the esoteric idea of "excellence." Otherwise, it now looks like a duck and smells like a duck to me. The woodwinds thing? There are bands that don't march woodwinds and are called bands. Or is the Ohio State marching band a drum corps? Maybe they would be if they added synths and emoting and amps and dancing/prancing <shudder>. Things that couldn't be farther away from the heart of what it is to be a drum corps not too long ago.

[Matt_S]

Sure Mike. Now go back and read the quote that you quoted :

"..I've not yet seen a high school band that could win at DCI, and likely never will, but I've seen performances that could contend for a spot in finals..."

Maybe I should have majored in english literature, because I don't know how else to interpret that.

It means exactly what you said. I agree with you; no high school band can match the top tier drum corps. This November we'll have Grand Nationals on the same field that DCI championships were held. I feel comfortable saying that none of the twelve bands in finals will give a performance to match the performances I saw from the Blue Devils or Carolina Crown earlier this month. But think! Those two corps that you yourself named took the top spots in DCI this year. Likely no band could hope to beat them, but no drum corps was able to beat them this year, either. If the ability to best the Blue Devils in competition is your criteria for being a drum corps, well then we've had 13 years, dating back to 1976, where not a single drum corps existed.

This definition of excellence as being the difference between corps and band is foolish, because it looks at only a handful of corps and ignores the rest of the activity. We agree that even groups like L.D. Bell, Kennesaw Mountain or Lawrence Central couldn't win DCI. But could they make finals? They couldn't beat the Blue Devils. But could they beat the Troopers? The Academy? The Glassmen? Of course, only ten to twelve corps are capable of answering 'yes' to those questions either. What about the Mandarins? Jersey Surf? Pioneer? Capital Regiment? Revolution? Hell, most of the bands at Grand Nationals this fall would be able to "mow the field" against drum corps like the Racine Scouts or Colt Cadets.

The interesting question to ask is what makes the Blue Devils or The Cavaliers so much better than the best bands. Clearly the activities are comparable enough that we're able to have this discussion at all. What differences account for the gap in performance? The primary explanation seems to be that drum corps exist for their own sake, while marching bands are often tied to an existing organization, often an academic institution. This is kind of an indirect reason by itself, but it opens the door in several ways:

First, it allows the elite corps to practice as often as they'd like. High school bands may have summer camps, but they can't dedicate every waking moment to their show the way that a World Class drum corps can. They've got school taking up most of their time, maybe a job as well. Second, it allows drum corps to have older membership. A high school band is forced to use kids that are currently enrolled typically aging from 14-18. What was the average age of the Blue Devils this past year? How many of their members had already graduated high school? I don't have the numbers, but if someone does I think it'd be interesting to hear. Additionally, it allows the top tier corps to audition for talent. A band exists as an option for the members of the associated institution, and therefore takes all comers, even the kid whose parents signed him up but who doesn't really want to be there. A corps like the Blue Devils picks the best 150 kids out of several hundred applicants.

If you ask me for the difference between band and corps, I think the explanation above isn't a bad way to go.

[bobjacobs]

A Point to consider:

One of our most cherished and proud notions is that we are most assuredly NOT marching bands. The length of this particular thread serves to underscore the passionate discourse on the very topic.

Long before I got involved with trying to assist the marketing efforts of Drum Corps International, I would imagine that I spent several thousand hours teaching my parents, family members, business colleagues and associates and friends all of the reasons why they shouldn't ask me "how the band is doing" whenever they ran into me at the office, in public or when I was attending a family event.

One of the biggest challenges we have in marketing "Drum Corps: The Activity" is trying to explain what it is... and more specifically, all of the ways that it is NOT marching band. This begs the question: besides those of us who are a part of this secret society, "Who really cares?" We know the differences... and if we can get our prospective guests to check it out, soon they will too. But, do we really need to front-load the conversations pounding this stuff into the heads of everyone with whom we come into contact?

Perhaps – and I need you to have an open mind here for a second, dear Mr./Ms. Passionate Fellow Drum Corps Enthusiast – we could make some progress in "spreading the good word" if we could drop all of the "World's Most Elite and Exclusive Marching Music Ensembles for Student Musicians and Performers" stuff and cut to the chase: Drum Corps International – The World's Best Marching Bands.

Heresy, you say? I beg your indulgence in an attempt to understand my unique point of view...

When we work to refine our "elevator pitch" to the imaginary millionaire who may just be willing to help fund us if we can explain what we are in the time it takes to get from the penthouse to the lobby, (or more realistically, to the not-so-imaginary corporate sponsor to whom we are making the Power Point-enhanced pitch for a partnership in success in fifteen minutes or less), it gets REALLY tough to explain all of the i-before-e-except-after-c rules that are related to "no woodwinds or trombones and our tubas aren't sousaphones and the french horn must be bell-forward and is therefore replaced by a mellophone" blah blah blah. Most people don't have the "mindspace" for all of that extra information... especially on our brisk elevator ride as it nears the ground floor. Most "civilians" could care less. Really!

I contend, however, that most people DO have the mindspace to understand what "World's Best" means and they certainly know what a marching band is. They can get excited about knowing someone who knows something about the World's Best something-or-other... especially if they had never considered such a thing existed until they met you! I further contend that if we can get past the semantics, enable them to feed off of our passion and to experience for themselves the power, the precision, the grace and the athleticism which are the hallmarks of our "shared addiction," we may actually be able to enter a new period of growth by getting folks excited rather than intimidating them by a bunch of "rules" about what they can and can't call us, or by boring them to sleep with details that they find may just find trivial at best.

Therefore... I propose that perhaps we only use the "drum corps is not a marching band" mantra as we give each other the knowing glance with a wink and the secret handshake, since we've already been successfully transformed into the ranks of the "enlightened;" and proudly use the "World's Best Marching Bands" philosophy as the sneaky bait in public to lure our unsuspecting neighbors into our lair (otherwise known as the ubiquitous "Stadium Near You").

When I take out of town guests to South Philly, I tell them not to worry about getting yelled at when they order a cheesesteak from one of the famous streetcorner sandwich joints. If they want a classic Philly cheesesteak with onions, all they need to remember when they get up to the window is "Whiz, with." If only it could be so easy getting my friends to understand how to make polite conversation about where I spend my summers... but I think I've made them paranoid from years of telling them what we're not.