bill Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 I'm not positive but I don't believe that a class A corp can move into an open class spot. Does anyone know for sure? A Class A cannot move into a Open Class spot. The class intentions of the corps have to be declared by (or before) June 1st to the best of my knowledge. With that being said, under the rules coming out of this past Rules Congress, a Class A corps can actually obtain full membership by having a score within the top ten (overall) scores at prelims. Thus a Class A corps can be a part of the 10 (core) member voting corps, but not preform in the Open Class finals, and at the same time a Open Class can perform in finals and not be a voting member going into the next year if bested (scorewise) by a Class A in prelims. This is all to the best of my recollection and without actually looking. But I believe the above is a actual senario that could happen under the present rules, guidelines and procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Also why is there a need for a break during prelims in class A and not open? What? Both class A and open-class prelims had a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 2000 Generations........................................24 brass ...................... 7 percussion in the pit jumping around from instrument to instrument. 1 judge said they were a show by themselves. And oh yes, DCA Class A World Champions I remember that...and Les Dynamiques a year or two before as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) So in other word you are saying FC guard wasn't that good. does that mean SD didn't have a grounded ensemble? a grounded ensemble means you have no one that moves at all...the entire section does not do drill. a tradition percussion set up is a battery and front ensemble. as for the guard....i'm not expert, but it seemed they had a rough day, moreso than the week before. I;'d imagine based on the score, the judge, a lot more qualified to talk guard than I am, agreed Edited September 13, 2009 by jeffsnewjetta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 so you lost me.... don't want to respond to most of the questions or debate the merits...Just want a retraction. I am out of line because??.... ok LSM does not suck - at all. I think they had a pretty good show especially for limited percussion. I am sorry if anyone could get that I thought they were bad. I also don't think WS was bad at all but if FC had 3 times the guard how do they end up with a lower score. do they su........ oops can't say that. Lets use "fake" corps then. Spirit of Oshkosh has only a 8 man front ensemble, not by design but by situation. they know that it limits how high a score they can get in percussion etc. they accept that because they want the corps to compete. ( do I really need to explain all this?). anyway. Spirit of O get's a score of 101 in percussion. Now the Mighty Hempmen have a 7 man front ensemble with 6 snares, 3 tenors , 5 bass. They get a score of 109. Hmmm ? as it turns out , most of the corps in the show, except the top 4, have similar scores from 96-109. The top 4 have scores from 149-175. All the corps have various size percussion sections. Spirit of O feels pretty good that they can hang with most of the group. yay.... better than they expected. Now the Hempmen are feeling down. Why? they have all that percussion. (boo-hoo) Do they suck? How would anyone know? We have never seen or heard any of them and can only theorize what happened. Your contention is that I stated facts and comparisons and because I used real drum corps you get offended and twist this into a vendetta thing, which it is not. Like Alan said, no one wants to hear the discussion or big picture but reduce it to only how it affects themselves. having an 8 man front ensemble limits in NO WAY how high their percussion score can be. The sheets have no requirements on what you must have...just on how you do with what you do have. that's the part you do not seem to be getting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayre Kulp Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 The Class A corps are smaller ... but honestly not that much smaller. When top 7 corps have 35 horns .. why would it not be possible for a 25 member horn line to beat or meet them competitively? Same said for percussion, visual, guard and even GE. That's one of the problems I've had all year with the numbers. There were alot of units that had a particularly strong section, that out-shined the rest of the corps. However, more often than not, these sections received a score "appropriate" to what the rest of the corps scored that night. For example, (and I know I'm gonna take heat for this), Bush's color guard was one of the most underrated sections ALL YEAR. Hell, in Wildwood, they were scored behind Carolina Gold. Not to take anything away from the fine folks at CG, but no way. If their guard was good, they should have been scored that way. Would it have pulled the rest of the corps along? Of course! But the final score SHOULD be a sum of all the parts, not? Same thing goes with say, Vigilantes drum lines. Not only were they large and clean, they demonstrated the utmost in control as they managed to avoid over powering a hornline that was smaller than the battery. Should have been scored up with the "big boys" in Open Class, IMHO. Might that have pushed them closer to the Class A champions? Maybe. But if they are comparable in most captions and significantly better in percussion, wouldn't you think they SHOULD be closer to the top? These opinions are not to favor or knock on any group OR the judges. I think I agree with the ranking, for the most part. I'm just not sure the rating and spread are quite where they should be, based on what I saw last weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 What? Both class A and open-class prelims had a break. Correct..... 24 corps total at prelims, a break after the first two blocs of eight corps. Fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 2000 Generations........................................24 brass ...................... 7 percussion in the pit jumping around from instrument to instrument. 1 judge said they were a show by themselves. And oh yes, DCA Class A World Champions Good show that year from you guys! Generations competed for three seasons... and won two Class A titles (tying for first with Heat Wave in 1998). Two out of three... not too shabby. I wonder if the Generations are the only all-age corps to have won more titles than they lost, in the history of DCA? Fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotdogchompa Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) a tradition percussion set up is a battery and front ensemble.having an 8 man front ensemble limits in NO WAY how high their percussion score can be. The sheets have no requirements on what you must have...just on how you do with what you do have. that's the part you do not seem to be getting what i think is missing is how can a traditional percussion setup like WS and SD score 40-50 points lower than the top 5 and be only 5-10 over a less traditional percussion. My contentions is that WS, SD and maybe Sun should have had scores in the 120-130 range. It may be possible for non-traditional to score over all the others but it would be unusual. We can either accept whatever the experts say or question it. I also contend that FC should have had a better CG score as what I saw was not bad ( not as good as WS ) but giving credit for size/attempt. I would have them even with WS at least. PS: It was good to see the Generations out at mini-corps again Edited September 13, 2009 by hotdogchompa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) So your entire argument comes down to: 60 Members = MORE POINTS than 37 members ........... period Bigger can be better .... bigger can be exponentially worse. Having more people on the field does not automatically merit more points. The systems gives points based on merit ... what you do ... how you do it ... and how well you do it. I'm sure some judges might have the opinion that more effect can be generated with more numbers .. but execution captions have nothing to do with size. Nor does ensemble captions. I'm all my days, I can't count how many times I've seen a smaller band or corps kick the crap out of another ensemble twice as big or even bigger. Write smart ... design the effect ... and execute your butt off. That's the true equation. On the flip side .... I can't count how many times I've seen a smaller unit get dumped by judges who are likeminded with your emphasis on size. It's a shame when it happens and unfortunately it happens a lot. It is great to witness a smaller ensemble beat up on big dogs because they're just that awesome .... frankly we don't see enough of that. Edited September 13, 2009 by supersop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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