Jeff Ream Posted June 16, 2010 Author Share Posted June 16, 2010 he still doesn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 he still doesn't It does make me feel better Rich never figured it out either...- I do have my guesses based on learning a few things from some good people that didn't directly have to do with 1981 or the corps, but do relate. There are some things that can really cause issues like this to happen without anyone realizing it's happening, or... it's set up that way to make things happen. Now that I don't know, but you can really stir the soup with numbers by sheer honest accident or by design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaminbenb Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 It does make me feel better Rich never figured it out either...- I do have my guesses based on learning a few things from some good people that didn't directly have to do with 1981 or the corps, but do relate. There are some things that can really cause issues like this to happen without anyone realizing it's happening, or... it's set up that way to make things happen. Now that I don't know, but you can really stir the soup with numbers by sheer honest accident or by design. Hard to say...but looking back on it, it was a show you either liked or disliked...Personally I think it was a mish-mash of styles, and a corps that was still searching for an identity...Ok, the Rick Wakeman stuff was great, but did it fit with the rest of the show? Which was an epic steal from the Bridgemen?!?! (except for the stupid drum solo) If we played in more of a "rock" vein I think the show would have been a bit more cohesive from a style standpoint, or gotten rid of 'Journey', and played Thunder and Blazes or something different, that show would have flowed better...I also think there was a bit of a drop off in talent drum wise, not to mention a really crappy drum solo...I blame the instructor, but that's just a personal opinion...I wasn't a fan of the guy. (did I mention I didn't really like the drum solo?) Music as a SONG was great! Singing or not, I think it was a VERY strong exit piece, but bringing back Impossible Dream was a mistake! (and if I'm not mistaken, didn't we lose the singing, and PLAY the whole tune until finals when we brought "ID" out again? something sticks in my mind about that) Listening to 80 and 81 side by side, I think we played much better in 80, but marched better in 81 because the majority of the corps was really 'getting' what Rich was doing, but we STILL needed another element which Eric Kitchenman brought in the next year...like him or his style of teaching or not, he really gave you the ability to march your show with more confidence, and to use his term "purpose"! Watch any of Eric's HS bands back int he day, and they LOOKED good! Rich was great with the mechanics of the drill, but once the drill was done, he just cleaned it from a technical standpoint (not a BAD thing mind you) We just needed to give a better overall impression on the field, and that's where Eric came in in 1982. The only thing I really remember Rich for as far as your "bearing" was the "lock-roll" exercises! But I really remember a general disgust within the corps about mid season when things started going weird... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaminbenb Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Another thing I forgot to mention... 1981 was one of the last years that a lot of the "old vets" marched! 1982 started with a fresher corps, and there was a younger nucleus that stayed...Not sure why a lot of us stayed after the year we has..vindication on our minds? Who knows...but I really remember a change in the nucleus, all of a sudden I was an "old vet" (at 18-19) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 h Hard to say...but looking back on it, it was a show you either liked or disliked...Personally I think it was a mish-mash of styles, and a corps that was still searching for an identity...Ok, the Rick Wakeman stuff was great, but did it fit with the rest of the show? Which was an epic steal from the Bridgemen?!?! (except for the stupid drum solo) If we played in more of a "rock" vein I think the show would have been a bit more cohesive from a style standpoint, or gotten rid of 'Journey', and played Thunder and Blazes or something different, that show would have flowed better...I also think there was a bit of a drop off in talent drum wise, not to mention a really crappy drum solo...I blame the instructor, but that's just a personal opinion...I wasn't a fan of the guy. (did I mention I didn't really like the drum solo?) Music as a SONG was great! Singing or not, I think it was a VERY strong exit piece, but bringing back Impossible Dream was a mistake! (and if I'm not mistaken, didn't we lose the singing, and PLAY the whole tune until finals when we brought "ID" out again? something sticks in my mind about that) Listening to 80 and 81 side by side, I think we played much better in 80, but marched better in 81 because the majority of the corps was really 'getting' what Rich was doing, but we STILL needed another element which Eric Kitchenman brought in the next year...like him or his style of teaching or not, he really gave you the ability to march your show with more confidence, and to use his term "purpose"! Watch any of Eric's HS bands back int he day, and they LOOKED good! Rich was great with the mechanics of the drill, but once the drill was done, he just cleaned it from a technical standpoint (not a BAD thing mind you) We just needed to give a better overall impression on the field, and that's where Eric came in in 1982. The only thing I really remember Rich for as far as your "bearing" was the "lock-roll" exercises! But I really remember a general disgust within the corps about mid season when things started going weird... the show was a mish mash now that you mention it, even for the times.it's like they tried to have a little bit of everything for everyone, and it didn't click Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 (edited) hthe show was a mish mash now that you mention it, even for the times.it's like they tried to have a little bit of everything for everyone, and it didn't click YES. Ray's argument was that we could play in varied styles, and that we should therfore earn higher MA scores. Didn't work. Writing a purely technical show and making analysis a primary goal is always disastrous. Rarely does anyone get credit for it unless you have a certain rep. Edited June 18, 2010 by BigW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaminbenb Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 YES. Ray's argument was that we could play in varied styles, and that we should therfore earn higher MA scores. Didn't work. Writing a purely technical show and making analysis a primary goal is always disastrous. Rarely does anyone get credit for it unless you have a certain rep. I've always figured that if you had to EXPLAIN your motives, you've already lost that battle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 in that case Ben, watch one of the DCI fan network offerings when they add in the designer commentary. your head will spin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 in that case Ben, watch one of the DCI fan network offerings when they add in the designer commentary.your head will spin LOL, very true. '08 PR did not have to explain. And I have the I think 04 DVD with PR when they did the Piazzola show Which I really dug (Yeah I do like the crazy stuff) and listened to the visual captions head's commentary- and what was fascinating to me was that he deliberately tried to keep things extremely accessible, and also deliberately dsigned visual cues into the program that were unmistakably Phantom's. Heck, Cavies do the same thing with certain visual cues like the S-Bend, etc. And that's why there's been all the narraration- basically a crutch to make sure even the biggest idiot can understand what a program is about with no need to write a show strong enough to actually tell the story musicaly and visually. One "high concept" show I have liked that does get it's point across with no need for narraration is the 2008 LD Bell HS "Quest" show. Go to YouTube and find it, I think the best one on there you'd get with 2008 LD Bell Silver Medalist on a search. I can overlook certain things certain people cannot because they use the tools very well and dont rely on the amps and synth as a crutch hey- how you gonna do an oboe solo without miking the kid in a huge stadium anyhow, LOL!? It's not like they're holding a Kanstul Baritone in their mitts like I do that can crack concrete at 100 paces.... Also, they quite Husa's "Music for Prague: 1968" at one point, a piece I have always wanted to do myself, I dig Husa, but then again, I always dug wierd stuff like Husa, Bartok, and Kodaly. You have to look for the *actual* ending on another video with the band doing an SCV-style down ending that's really cool--I think they had to cut the show for the Texas championships. Anyhow- yeah, you can do high-concept without the need for someone talking throughout the show to tell you what's happening because it's sooooooo esoteric, LOL. And while I buy into miking a clarinet or Oboe-- lords knows you really don't need it in this activity. We ain't playin' Oboes.... yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 trust me when I say they think they have to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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