The history of the Westshoremen

[Jaminbenb]

including state politicians had been caught back there

I forget the politician, but the one was caught with a guy that worked at the bank I used to work at in those daze...ironically the guy was "head teller"! (true story!)

[bugleboy1048]

I forget the politician, but the one was caught with a guy that worked at the bank I used to work at in those daze...ironically the guy was "head teller"! (true story!)

being in cable myself, "I don't care who ya are, that's funny" (no my name isn't larry) City Island was notorious way back in my day.....

[JimF-LowBari]

Remember when there was a mess like this in the bathrooms at the Camp Hill Shopping Center? It was the end of the Mall where the Giant is now. I was in a stall one night and my leg went to sleep. Started moving my foot like Hades to get the blood flowing and suddenly I see a ####### HAND come up from the bottom of the divider between the stalls. Thought the guy next to me was having a heart attack but realized he wasn't making any sound. I bailed the Hell outta there wondering WTF happened.

Week later there was a story that there was a sex sting in that bathroom. Tapping your foot was the signal that you..... ummm.... wanted some attention.

Now how Off Topic can we go???

PS Ben... after getting a horticulture degree and being a mail carrier my sister now works for Northwest Bank. Must be a certain personality that goes with working in a bank.

[BigW]

Well, lessee, while we were dealing with the wierdness that was City island back in 1981, we did get to go to Clifton for the season opener.

We ended up 4th out of 4, no real suprise- Reading was on a roll, and obviously Sun had got back on the rails from last season.

Realistically, Reading was obviously heading for a threepeat, the corps was intact, Tony Yaklich's writing was strong as ever. We figured maybe this season, to move up, catch the Hurcs, stay ahead of Sun, and it was obviously going to be tough.

The problem was that we really weren't gaining on anyone we needed to gain on. We were caught in no man;s land- we could beat everyone else easily- we just couldn't get any traction against the big names, either, and at least we were closer to them than we were the ones beneath us- no one pushed us from behind, this time, we were trying to do the pushing, and tihngs weren't working as well as we'd hoped they would have.

IIRC, we ditched the singing in late June/ early July when we had some time off between contests- and it was not a popular change with the membership. I know we fought with the staff, and were unhappy about it. Ray was admant, felt the whole thing was a failure, and I think the judges took the blame.

Really, the whole issue is still incredibly confusing to me. They change the rules to allow something innovative-- only one corps attempts it, and got no real credit. My guess is that everyone ahead of us had a tried and true formula they knew and were comfortable with, we were still trying to find ourselves, and we took the chance.

My guess is that had one of the big names took a chance on singing, it may have been better taken and appraised by the panels. I'm certain the staffs of those corps would have made quite sure of that through the standard browbeating and threats that were common- and I'm not saying that we didn't engage in it as well, but my guess is we judst didn;t pack the clout to push the concept over the top.

So, we ditched the singing and seguaed back into Impossible Dream, figuring the change would appease the panels and result in some traction against whomever was ahead of us. It seemed to have worked at the big Rochester regional-- where we finished .2 short of the Hurcs, .4 short of the Cabs, and .45 short of Sun. We seemed to be back in the hunt to go after some people. Perhaps the change was working....

Then the scores slipped at The Dream. I look at the scores in 1981, and would really like to see some recaps and look at who was on what panels and when, because the scores shot up and down for the corps like an elevator.

May 24 Clifton NJ DCA 4 63.150

May 30 Gloversville NY DCA 5 64.650

June 6 Mechanicsburg PA DCA 2 69.150

June 13 DuBoise PA DCA 3 71.500

June 20 Hershey PA DCA 3 72.300

July 11 Grand Prix Meadowlands NJ 5 75.350

July 18 Review of the Corps Carlisle PA DCA 3 77.900 Up to here, we see growth rewarded...

July 25 Scranton PA DCA 4 71.500 a six point four point drop in one week... WTF!?

August 1 DCA Regional Rochester NY DCA 6 78.250 A nearly 7 point rise again...

August 8 Lewisburg PA DCA 3 81.400

August 9 The Dream East Rutherford NJ 5 75.100 a SIX point drop AGAIN...

August 16 Bloomfield NJ DCA 6 79.950

August 22 Oil City PA DCA 2 84.100

August 30 Sunbury PA DCA 3 83.550

September 6 DCA Championships Philadelphia PA DCA 6 84.450

September 6 DCA Championships Prelims Philadelphia PA DCA 6 84.900

I'll get back to this, but this kind of issue from the panels was aggravating. It's obvious that we were either hideously inconsistent, or that the judging was found rather wanting. I know if we had backslid to the levels of those kind of drops in numbers-- Rich would have laid into us like anyone's business and told us we needed to get it together... and that's the polite DCP approved verbage, Rich would have utterly killed us and said this was our fault and made us own up to the stank--- and he didn't. And Rich is brutally honest and a straightforward guy. The corps can't have taken all of the blame, we'd have been told that in no uncertain terms.

3 AM, gotta stop while I'm ahead here and still kind of thinking about this and silently fuming a bit because I'm not getting a handle on these numbers, and blaming it on the tick system isn't entirely the blame either!

[Jaminbenb]

Remember when there was a mess like this in the bathrooms at the Camp Hill Shopping Center? It was the end of the Mall where the Giant is now. I was in a stall one night and my leg went to sleep. Started moving my foot like Hades to get the blood flowing and suddenly I see a ####### HAND come up from the bottom of the divider between the stalls. Thought the guy next to me was having a heart attack but realized he wasn't making any sound. I bailed the Hell outta there wondering WTF happened.

Week later there was a story that there was a sex sting in that bathroom. Tapping your foot was the signal that you..... ummm.... wanted some attention.

Now how Off Topic can we go???

PS Ben... after getting a horticulture degree and being a mail carrier my sister now works for Northwest Bank. Must be a certain personality that goes with working in a bank.

I remember hearing about that bathroom...never knew it, used the stand-ee's a lot! (The Mrs. used to get her nails done at one of the places there) I used to frequent the old Penn State store, and the CD place that used to be there (Wee Three Records was it?) Banking is a weird business...a bit more diverse than being in a drum corps..but the people all think they are better than you depending upon how they dress for work?!?! I remember telling the guys that worked for me in the mailroom to wear 3 piece suits and people would respect you! "I'm the CEO of the mail room clerks, Oh my God I'm a piece of Work!" ($1. to Jimmy Buffett..I don't think he wrote it, but I like his version of the tune!)

[Jaminbenb]

Well, lessee, while we were dealing with the wierdness that was City island back in 1981, we did get to go to Clifton for the season opener.

We ended up 4th out of 4, no real suprise- Reading was on a roll, and obviously Sun had got back on the rails from last season.

Realistically, Reading was obviously heading for a threepeat, the corps was intact, Tony Yaklich's writing was strong as ever. We figured maybe this season, to move up, catch the Hurcs, stay ahead of Sun, and it was obviously going to be tough.

The problem was that we really weren't gaining on anyone we needed to gain on. We were caught in no man;s land- we could beat everyone else easily- we just couldn't get any traction against the big names, either, and at least we were closer to them than we were the ones beneath us- no one pushed us from behind, this time, we were trying to do the pushing, and tihngs weren't working as well as we'd hoped they would have.

IIRC, we ditched the singing in late June/ early July when we had some time off between contests- and it was not a popular change with the membership. I know we fought with the staff, and were unhappy about it. Ray was admant, felt the whole thing was a failure, and I think the judges took the blame.

Really, the whole issue is still incredibly confusing to me. They change the rules to allow something innovative-- only one corps attempts it, and got no real credit. My guess is that everyone ahead of us had a tried and true formula they knew and were comfortable with, we were still trying to find ourselves, and we took the chance.

My guess is that had one of the big names took a chance on singing, it may have been better taken and appraised by the panels. I'm certain the staffs of those corps would have made quite sure of that through the standard browbeating and threats that were common- and I'm not saying that we didn't engage in it as well, but my guess is we judst didn;t pack the clout to push the concept over the top.

So, we ditched the singing and seguaed back into Impossible Dream, figuring the change would appease the panels and result in some traction against whomever was ahead of us. It seemed to have worked at the big Rochester regional-- where we finished .2 short of the Hurcs, .4 short of the Cabs, and .45 short of Sun. We seemed to be back in the hunt to go after some people. Perhaps the change was working....

Then the scores slipped at The Dream. I look at the scores in 1981, and would really like to see some recaps and look at who was on what panels and when, because the scores shot up and down for the corps like an elevator.

May 24 Clifton NJ DCA 4 63.150

May 30 Gloversville NY DCA 5 64.650

June 6 Mechanicsburg PA DCA 2 69.150

June 13 DuBoise PA DCA 3 71.500

June 20 Hershey PA DCA 3 72.300

July 11 Grand Prix Meadowlands NJ 5 75.350

July 18 Review of the Corps Carlisle PA DCA 3 77.900 Up to here, we see growth rewarded...

July 25 Scranton PA DCA 4 71.500 a six point four point drop in one week... WTF!?

August 1 DCA Regional Rochester NY DCA 6 78.250 A nearly 7 point rise again...

August 8 Lewisburg PA DCA 3 81.400

August 9 The Dream East Rutherford NJ 5 75.100 a SIX point drop AGAIN...

August 16 Bloomfield NJ DCA 6 79.950

August 22 Oil City PA DCA 2 84.100

August 30 Sunbury PA DCA 3 83.550

September 6 DCA Championships Philadelphia PA DCA 6 84.450

September 6 DCA Championships Prelims Philadelphia PA DCA 6 84.900

I'll get back to this, but this kind of issue from the panels was aggravating. It's obvious that we were either hideously inconsistent, or that the judging was found rather wanting. I know if we had backslid to the levels of those kind of drops in numbers-- Rich would have laid into us like anyone's business and told us we needed to get it together... and that's the polite DCP approved verbage, Rich would have utterly killed us and said this was our fault and made us own up to the stank--- and he didn't. And Rich is brutally honest and a straightforward guy. The corps can't have taken all of the blame, we'd have been told that in no uncertain terms.

3 AM, gotta stop while I'm ahead here and still kind of thinking about this and silently fuming a bit because I'm not getting a handle on these numbers, and blaming it on the tick system isn't entirely the blame either!

I remember a general disgust around the corps that year...it seemed no matter what we did, or how well we did it, we got slammed by the judges. It definitely left us all with a bad taste for the judges that year. Was it a "dues paying" year? Like "Ok, you guys are starting to make a move...let's dump on you and see how you react" sort of thing, I dunno?!?! I'm surprised that the corps continued to go on the way this year played out. It was really a gut check, and seperated the strong from the weak for the next year.

One of the things that REALLY got me (and I may be ahead of the story) was when we were a few tenths below the Hurcs at one of the later shows (Not sure if it was Oil City or Sunbury, Oil City sticks out in my mind) and we thought we should have beaten them...the judges told us (was it Crawford again?) that we were their 'EQUAL' and that any given week we could beat them by the same margin....little did we know what was going to happen at finals?!?!?! Does that mean that we COULD have won the whole shootin' match? I think not...that was either Sun or Buc's IMHO! (I used to lean more towards Sun since I was "closet" fan..God help you if you admitted something like that in those days, but when I joined Buc's a few years later, and we were talking about that year...I made the mistake of offering my opinion, and basically forgot who I was talking with! But after rebuttal, will agree that it should have been between BOTH corps! )(anyway...that was my politically correct version of 1981's championship)

It was not how we all envisioned that year to be I assure you...

[Jeff Ream]

I remember seeing the show early and loving it...and after the change I hated it. I remember, being all of 12, hanging in a parking lot when Rich asked my Dad and I what we thought, and i said it sucked.

Rich was stunned at first, then looked at my Dad and said "oh he'll go far in this game. he's blunter than you are!"

[BigW]

I remember seeing the show early and loving it...and after the change I hated it. I remember, being all of 12, hanging in a parking lot when Rich asked my Dad and I what we thought, and i said it sucked.

Rich was stunned at first, then looked at my Dad and said "oh he'll go far in this game. he's blunter than you are!"

Honesty is definitely a two edged sword in this activity. I will say those who have it can at least look themselves in the mirror every day, and I think that was one thing being in Westshore did for us all- I think we were so hard on ourselves we weren't delusional.

[Jeff Ream]

and honesty isn't always received ell, because sometimes people can not handle the truth, or can not step back and look at themselves objectively

[buzzgok]

and honesty isn't always received ell, because sometimes people can not handle the truth, or can not step back and look at themselves objectively

Or just look at the overall picture of what is going on. I was also one that was trying to figure out that year what was going and why our score was a yo-yo at times when we were consistantly performing the show the way we were taught. Like BigW said, if we screwed up, Rich would have left us know all about it and thinking back, I believe he was as confused as we were about it. I recall him saying at one time that he had no explanation for the score drop.