Jeff Ream Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 political and sports analysts are different than the average fan. It is their job to be an analysts.how many people in here work for a DCI corps as a designer, instructor, or consultant? Or even work full time teaching marching band, drumline, guard. Then maybe you could be on the same level as an analysts.....other than that your just a sunday afternoon arm chair quarter back. Most of the people making those decisions live the activity day to day, they are not just fans, it is their profession. I like the TV show ER and House......it doesn't make me know the best way to run a hospital no,. but maybe many of us have drum corps experience, and we also understand the business side of the activity better than you wish to give us lemmings credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Does anyone remember all those petitions going around about banning amplification around the time of the 2004 season? What happened with all of that? I'm sure it was time well spent for the one who organized it.so its not "shut up and deal with it" its "accept it because all of the complaining and petitions won't mean anything in the long run" these changes will be around a lot longer. right. people will just stop going to Indy for finals. as many of us said then, the only way to make em listen is to hit the checkbook hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 no,. but maybe many of us have drum corps experience, and we also understand the business side of the activity better than you wish to give us lemmings credit for. Besides, if you watch sports shows, half of the analysts are career 'analysts', AKA, they've never played, and have simply been following the sport for most of their life.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I'll admit I find some of the complaining irritating too. But the folks of DCP have invested millions of hours and millions of dollars into this activity. They're not armchair quarterbacks -- they're current and former marchers, volunteers, parents, etc. They've earned the right to discuss their displeasure on an internet forum. There is no arguing this point. If you disagree with their position, then discuss it like an adult -- something posters like MikeD and Kamaraq have been able to do. If you find actually discussing the issue impossible, and your only recourse is to whine about other people whining and to make comically inept analogies, then I recommend ignoring the conversation. People are right when you say it won't make a difference. Most people who attend finals will continue to attend regardless of where it's held. A few thousand of us won't come -- that's all. I'm pretty sure the lost revenue from those ticket sales will be more than covered by the savings of staying in Lucas Oil and not desperately casting about for a new stadium each and every year. So good for DCI - they've made what I think will prove to be a smart business move. But as someone who has devoted thousands of hours and dollars to drum corps I reserve the right to disagree, both in ways that are tangible (sending e-mails and refusing to attend finals) and intangible (discussing it on DCP). Even though I haven't made drum corps my career, I still have that right -- just like I have the right complain about how my tax dollars are spent even though I'm not a politician, and even though my complaints don't make any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 This is one of the reasons I for one have a credibiblity issue with DCI. Please listen VERY CAREFULLY to this press conference at the 9:20 mark through to 10:00 mark and THEN, the most telling, from the 14:24 mark 'till the end ! "Drum Corps International made it worth spending the money on the retractable roof"! (GEEZ) While I know that opening the roof would not be the ultimate answer if they would open the roof and both ends ALL THE WAY it would make some difference. Anywhere the reverb/echo can escape a little would help. The issue to move to LOS, according to the video I pasted the link to here, was "settled" by the fact, according to DAN, when the retractalble roof was thrown into the mix. OPEN THE ROOF AND THE ENDS! I know, I know Not gonna happen. Another statement in a press conference not lived up to. :o(http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=1...ea-f85ef5fc5f62 yeah well, little did he know they wouldn't let him do that. My hunch is this in a rare defense of Dan and the gang: they got told one thing. When August 2009 rolled around, those in control changed their minds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Besides, if you watch sports shows, half of the analysts are career 'analysts', AKA, they've never played, and have simply been following the sport for most of their life.... now leave Mike Greenberg out of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrlandoContraAlum Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 How does your experience in a movie theater reflect on what those at the stadium experienced? There are many variables that impact the sound you had at the theater, so I don't see how you can make a judgement on the acoustics at LOS from sitting in a theater a thousand miles away. Ah, but, as I said in my post, I HAVE attended the QF broadcast for 3 years, and IN THAT MEDIUM the sound, as reflected in the broadcast, was worse in LOS than in Pasadena or Bloomington. Therefore, I made the corrolation that the sound must have been worse in person. I based my comments on what I DID experience, and that was that the sound was worse. 1000 miles away or not, the experience (viewing the QF broadcast) is a valid comparison reference. If I had said that the QF broadcast sound was bad compared to being at either Bloomington or Pasadena in person, then this argument would have merit. I doubt the acoustics will have any measurable impact on attendance at champs. Personally, I am not convinced holding champs in one place all these years is the best idea, but since I don't know the particulars of the contract, I am not in any position to make much of a real assessment.The folks at DCI are bright people who want to ensure that DCI remains a viable entity, so I defer to their expertise. I am SHOCKED that you are taking the "company line" on this one. Shocked. I never in a million years would imagine that you of all people would fall into the camp of "it's not bad... really." I gotta wonder, does your back hurt from constantly having your head in the sand? IMO the constant sniping by too many 'old folks' on DCP who should know better is a much larger issue than anything the current and recent marching members say.Your pic shows you in a Bayonne uniform...I remember VERY clearly the sniping by the 'old folks' of 1976 when they took the field wearing them. Well, I was 6 back then, so yeah, I don't remember it. I DO know my history though, and I am sure that were there an internet back in the day, Bayonne would have taken Cadets-Level heat for what they did. I also marched a show (Suncoast 88) that probably would have generated quite a bit of discussion as well. I think that what you should take from that is that THIS "old guy" can appreciate setting out on controversial paths. Locking in LOS for 10 years (minimum... but I won't go into the reasons why I feel that Indy may become the permanent home of DCI) site unseen is not an artisitic decision. Now, I realize that it may very well have been one of or the ONLY way that DCI could continue to be viable, and I understand that. I am simply saying the attitudes such as those displayed in this thread (we are not playing to the audiences, we are playing to the judges; either don't ##### or don't come, etc.) are short-sighted and, as much as you may not see this, represent at least a portion of what some of us long-time fans view as the attitudes of some of DCI's BOD. By the way, you can't have it both ways. I have seen you post, many many times, that the negative opinions that you see on DCP are the views of a vocal minority, and do not represent the views of the average crowd at a given show, therefore they are not valid, or are marginalized. Now you are saying that those same views are a bigger issue? Really? Look, as others have said, I think that most of us want the same thing in the end.. for the activity to go on, and hopefully to thrive. I happen to believe that no matter the show or how the fans feel, the experience for these kids is basically the same as it was for me 20 years ago, and that is a Good Thing. And I will admit that part of this is selfish on my part, as I don't get to go to all that many shows, and the lasting legacy year in and out is what I can get on the DVDs and CDs. If the championship venue causes the legacy product to suffer, then that is a Bad Thing in the long run for the activity. Let me give you an example. 1995 was a VERY good year for drum corps, and includes the show that many many folks consider one of the most exciting of all time (Madison 95). I can tell you that I have listened to that year under 10 times, as the audio on the CDs is unbearable. Not the fault of a single one of the corps... just bad luck with the recording. Now, John mentioned that the sound on this year's products is very good, and if that is the case, then a lot of this may be for naught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrlandoContraAlum Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I can't comment on the movie theater thing because...wait for it...I wasn't there. Have no idea what it looked or sounded like. I was in LoS though, for several shows and at several vantage points. I will say this though...the sound on the DVDs is a lot different than it was live. The audio mix is really well done (as it should be, of course).Now, while it's not an optimal sound environment, everything else about the place simply rocks. Actually, it's the exact opposite of the Citrus Bowl in Orlando...that place is far and away the best acoustical environment DCI has ever been held, but everything else sucked. Weather, food, parking, neighborhood, you name it (though to be fair, the Orlando weather wasn't the worst for a DCI site). Not so LOS/Indy. I do believe that while we might not ever be able to make LOS perfect from a sound standpoint, at least there are things that can be done. You can fix the incidental stuff that has plagued other sites. John, Let me give you my humble comparison. Back in the late 80s / early 90s, I was a fan of the Baltimore Orioles. They were pretty good at that time, and in 1993 they opened what at the time was arguably the best stadium in baseball. They had some ridiculous streak of sellouts. Then they started to suck. Guess what? People stopped coming. It's expensive to go to a baseball game. It's expensive to go to DCI Finals. The sound at finals is about half of the experience, no? Regardless of the improvements in the ancillary items, the actual product is currently suffering. I don't have an answer, and I tend to fall into the camp of waiting to see what DCI can come up with, if anything. I hope that something can be done, as I don't want DCI to hurt. But I also agree with some of the posters who feel that the "fluff" pieces and spin is somewhat of an insult to our intelligence. Really, I am glad that the facility is better, the town is better, all of that. But to discount the effect on the sound frankly comes across sort of like "Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifer Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 how many people in here work for a DCI corps as a designer, instructor, or consultant? Or even work full time teaching marching band, drumline, guard. Then maybe you could be on the same level as an analysts.....other than that your just a sunday afternoon arm chair quarter back.Most of the people making those decisions live the activity day to day, they are not just fans, it is their profession. And when it comes to things that affect the fans (like the venue finals is held in) it's the fans who are the experts and its those who are very involved in running DCI and individuals corps who have little to no experience in the role of an average fan. How many of those involved in the day to day operations of DCI and individual corps have paid for ans sat in seats with the unwashed masses throughout several entire shows in any given year? VERY FEW. So when it comes to things like the venue for finals, DCI SHOULD LISTEN TO THE FANS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrlandoContraAlum Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Does anyone remember all those petitions going around about banning amplification around the time of the 2004 season? What happened with all of that? I'm sure it was time well spent for the one who organized it.so its not "shut up and deal with it" its "accept it because all of the complaining and petitions won't mean anything in the long run" these changes will be around a lot longer. And here I have to call you on being inconsistent. When Galen (I think... right?) created the petition, he WAS doing something. It may not have been the something that YOU (the collective you) wanted, but he DID do something to try to gain support for his position. In the end, it did not have an effect, but he did a LOT more than just sit here being an armchair quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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