Acoustics at LOS

[Tito John]

I was describing the controversy over the acoustics in the dome among DCI fans to a family member whose job is connected with LOS; the immediate response was "Open the dome."

There was a country music show in the dome shortly after it opened (I googled, and it must have been a Kenny Chesney show in September 08.) The first two acts or so performed with the roof closed, and a fair number (undefined) of fans left the dome during that part of the show complaining of bad sound or headaches or ear pain. The dome was opened in mid-show and the rest of the performances, reportedly, were much better if still not perfect.

I pass this along for what it's worth; there's a big difference between drum corps and a country or rock performance, of course, and I didn't press for details. Just thought it was interesting.

Edited December 26, 2009 by Tito John

[BlooContraGuy]

I definitely remember reading about this.

I won't feel better about the acoustic issue until they decide to try and open the dome, but from what I hear/read, that won't be happening because experts say it wont do much.

Whatevah! It's only Finals.

[Jeff Ream]

the fear is the place has no drainage system...if it rains, it will be a swamp

[2000Cadet]

the fear is the place has no drainage system...if it rains, it will be a swamp

That's just ridiculous. With all that technology they have in that stadium and couple that with the fact that it's the 21st century, HOW CAN THEY NOT BUILD A STADIUM WITH A DRAINAGE SYSTEM??!! I mean sure, one might argue that it's an indoor stadium and they don't need a drainage system. But if the case were that the stadium would be an indoor facility the entire time, what's the purpose of building a retractable roof?

Edited December 26, 2009 by 2000Cadet

[chaos001]

That's just ridiculous. With all that technology they have in that stadium and couple that with the fact that it's the 21st century, HOW CAN THEY NOT BUILD A STADIUM WITH A DRAINAGE SYSTEM??!! I mean sure, one might argue that it's an indoor stadium and they don't need a drainage system. But if the case were that the stadium would be an indoor facility the entire time, what's the purpose of building a retractable roof?

well, it is Indiana of all places...

[s3si1u]

the fear is the place has no drainage system...if it rains, it will be a swamp

simple enough. if it's raining, then close it (i doubt finals would go on in the rain anyway)

[Jeff Ream]

well..they didnt put the drainage in for cost savings if i remember reading right. look i'm not defending the place.

but...if you open it, it has to stay open...and if it rains, the place is ####ed. you cant change the playing field half way thru the show. every corps has to have the same conditions. that's what they have said and so have many others on here.

if you're say Colts and you go on with an open roof, then you're say Troop and the roof is closed...it's a very different sound if you're Troop. I kinda see their point.

[Peel Paint]

That's just ridiculous. With all that technology they have in that stadium and couple that with the fact that it's the 21st century, HOW CAN THEY NOT BUILD A STADIUM WITH A DRAINAGE SYSTEM??!! I mean sure, one might argue that it's an indoor stadium and they don't need a drainage system. But if the case were that the stadium would be an indoor facility the entire time, what's the purpose of building a retractable roof?

Perhaps you missed other discussions on this, but LOS was originally planned with both a drainage system and a retractable roof. Other stadiums in other cities that have been built with retractable roofs do in fact have drainage systems so the field can get wet. In the planning/very early construction stages, LOS was faced with major cost overruns and was in danger of not getting built. They had to slash costs. LOS' drainage system was going to be very expensive to put in. They decided the drainage system was expendable to get the project completed. Whether they failed to think things through and didn't understood that meant that the retractable roof would be severely limited in use without a drainage system, or did understand it but just didn't get care because they wanted it built with the roof because the roof was "cool" and fundamental to the design, I don't know. Hindsight is 20/20. It was a dumb decision, particularly as far as DCI is concerned.

We've also repeatedly covered that:

1) ...if opening/closing the roof does substantially change the acoustics, doing so in the middle of a show may not be fair to corps judged before/after the roof was closed/opened midstream. If this is true, the roof needs to be either open or closed for an entire show.

2) ...if opening/closing the roof doesn't change the sound substantially enough to affect judging, that's because the part of the roof that can be opened is a relatively small portion of the structure that domes over the stands, and sound gets trapped in the part of the roof structure that cannot be opened, so it would still sound wrong.

3) ...opening the roof on a hot and humid August day will potentially cause very serious heat issues for many people, particularly in the upper deck, worse than an outdoor stadium in summer conditions.

4) ...after the roof is closed, the air conditioning will be slow to recover.

5) ...summer thunderstorms in Indiana do sometimes pop up right overhead with nothing approaching on the radar, and the roof cannot be closed instantly.

6) ...since a wet field could cause expensive damage to LOS and leave the field flooded and unmarchable for the balance of championship week, the roof therefore has to be closed if there is even a remote chance of rain, which there often is in Indianapolis in August.

Edited December 26, 2009 by Peel Paint

[mobrien]

Jim Irsay (Colts owner) wanted a retractable roof stadium. Indy didn't really see the need, but went ahead and built the capability into the stadium as a way to keep their major tenant happy.

But because Indy saw LOS as primarily a convention center and indoor venue rather than an indoor/outdoor stadium, they didn't spend more than absolutely necessary to make it open-dome optional. The electronics in the air are not waterproofed the way they'd be in an outdoor stadium. There's no drainage system (as previously mentioned). While the cost of drainage was a pittance compared to the cost of the whole stadum, the cost of doing everything else was a major consideration, one they didn't want to undertake given how THEY saw the stadium (after all, it's not like you're gonna open the dome in the middle of a tradeshow).

In terms of opening/closing DURING Finals, then you've created a situation where you have materially changed the venue from one part of the competition to another. The corps who performed with a closed lid are performing under different handicap than those who performed with it open, which is gonna cause its own raft of problems.

Personally, I didn't love the sound at LOS, but didn't find it THAT objectionable; actually LESS objectionable than the sound of sitting on the side two upper deck at Camp Randall in '06, with the ambient noise of an air compressor next to the upper deck drowning out a lot of quiet moments.

[2000Cadet]

Perhaps you missed other discussions on this, but LOS was originally planned with both a drainage system and a retractable roof. Other stadiums in other cities that have been built with retractable roofs do in fact have drainage systems so the field can get wet. In the planning/very early construction stages, LOS was faced with major cost overruns and was in danger of not getting built. They had to slash costs. LOS' drainage system was going to be very expensive to put in. They decided the drainage system was expendable to get the project completed. Whether they failed to think things through and didn't understood that meant that the retractable roof would be severely limited in use without a drainage system, or did understand it but just didn't get care because they wanted it built with the roof because the roof was "cool" and fundamental to the design, I don't know. Hindsight is 20/20. It was a dumb decision, particularly as far as DCI is concerned.

We've also repeatedly covered that:

1) ...if opening/closing the roof does substantially change the acoustics, doing so in the middle of a show may not be fair to corps judged before/after the roof was closed/opened midstream. If this is true, the roof needs to be either open or closed for an entire show.

2) ...if opening/closing the roof doesn't change the sound substantially enough to affect judging, that's because the part of the roof that can be opened is a relatively small portion of the structure that domes over the stands, and sound gets trapped in the part of the roof structure that cannot be opened, so it would still sound wrong.

3) ...opening the roof on a hot and humid August day will potentially cause very serious heat issues for many people, particularly in the upper deck, worse than an outdoor stadium in summer conditions.

4) ...after the roof is closed, the air conditioning will be slow to recover.

5) ...summer thunderstorms in Indiana do sometimes pop up right overhead with nothing approaching on the radar, and the roof cannot be closed instantly.

6) ...since a wet field could cause expensive damage to LOS and leave the field flooded and unmarchable for the balance of championship week, the roof therefore has to be closed if there is even a remote chance of rain, which there often is in Indianapolis in August.

Yeah I missed the discussion on this, but didn't they have finals in Orlando for three years in a row? Didn't they have thunderstorm issues then? I remember they did because I was in 2 finals competitions down there. Well we have to live with it I guess so there's no need for me to beat a dead horse.