Final Rule Proposal Voting Results

[Slow Adam]

I don’t understand the complaints about modern arranging. Modern corps put out an interpretation of the source material, not a transcription. If you want to hear the source material, then listen to the source material (EDIT - ninja'd by FanofNight). Why would I want to hear West Side Story transcribed for brass and percussion when I could get a reinterpretation of it? I thought The Cadets musical package was brilliant this past year, as they were able to extract segments of WSS that highlighted their show concept and build on them. Sure, they had some forced transitions (notably to ‘America’), but they also had some very nicely done moments. This is getting pretty far off topic but a lot of what people describe as ‘hummable melodies’ is often due to repetition of a musical statement or familiarity with the source material. MacArthur Park is a boring, repetitive song with cheesy modulation. A straight transcription of that piece is not something I want to hear on the field. Most pop music is relatively repetitive which is why I do not enjoy a lot of it. That’s my opinion, and I’m as entitled to it as those out there clamoring for music to be what it was back in the day.

Take Phantom 1996 as an example.

No corps today would DARE invest that much time, being fairly faithful to the original without any "effect moments", to build to an impact like they did. Star 1993 is another one that comes to mind.

The only recent example I can think of is Crown from this past year, but they used the pre-show time allotment to do it.

Drum corps arranging today seems to have a case of ADD (SCV was a fantastic exception in 2009). Perhaps "mutilate" wasn't the right choice of word, but I just wish arranging wasn't so effect-transition-effect-transition oriented...it's getting to be like figure skating and gymnastics.

[audiodb]

You and I have had this argument before and you continue to misconstrue facts to suit your side. You say that Pioneer was told they'd be last in brass on Gs as if it was said by Dan Acheson and decreed in official press release by DCI.

Um, no....that's your hyperbole, not mine.

A judge said that. Ok. Yes, judges are supposed to adjudicate according to the criteria set forth by DCI, but humans (even judges) are imperfect.

Of course. That's why we try to develop better judging systems, so that they might still work even with mere human beings serving as the judges.

Also, you neglect to mention that Pioneer was no longer last in MANY captions this past year. Were they not last in drums because they switched to Bb horns? That question is as ridiculous as your assertion that Pioneer was 21st in brass instead of 22nd because they switched to Bb.

So who's misconstruing now? I never said Pioneer placed one spot higher because they switched. Rather, switching opened up that possibility.

That isn't even mentioning other factors like it's more difficult to make a G bugle sound good than it is to make Bb/F horn sound good for an inexperienced player. I'm betting Pioneer has a decent number of inexperienced players, so in that sense, staying on G was adversely impacting their score whereas being on Bb might help alleviate some of the problems they were encountering.

A valid consideration....although, Pioneer also marches a number of South African kids each summer, and they are using G bugles over there, so the G horns would provide the advantage of familiarity for them.

Oh, and Spartans won Division II in 2007 on G bugles against almost strictly Bb competition. They switched to Bb the next year and didn’t make finals. There is no correlation here.

Nor is there any relevance....Spartans did not win brass. In fact, just like world-class, no G hornline has won brass in the open-class (division II) finals since Bb/F was first legal there in 2002. However, I don't think there has been any anti-G bias in judging at the division II/III level.

Then again, there's been virtually no judging bias in world-class either....just the threat of such has apparently been enough to compel all world-class corps to conform to the judging community's preferences concerning equipment types.

Lastly, can you provide any reasons why a corps would want to march their pit or do the whole sideline entry/exit thing?

Well, for one thing, a parade unit moving into field competition wouldn't even have a pit. Not all corps have had success recruiting pit players, either....maybe their kids all want to be on the field moving around. I've seen corps like that over the years. You'd think that would still be an option, but in practice it isn't any longer. Have you ever stopped to think why that is? The battery is optional....several corps have competed without one, including winning efforts by Ventures and Patriots....so why isn't the pit optional?

As for sideline entry/exit....I'm not going to speculate what goes on in the minds of drill designers.

Corps do what makes sense for them, many of these rules just remove some unreasonable constraints and then you act like they’re mandates because all corps take advantage of the opportunities new rules provide.

But that's the thing. If they are "advantages", as you say, then they are essentially mandates. This is a competitive activity, particularly at the world-class level. If a rule change allows a new "advantage" and corps X adopts it, how can corps Y expect to keep up without adopting it as well? That would be like competing with one arm tied behind your back (to paraphrase the decade's most competitively successful director).

I wouldn’t be so bent out of shape about this post if you presented your side of the argument more fairly. Jeff, for example, often disagrees with my perspective on drum corps but I can’t refute anything he says because he makes his case clearly and fairly. I understand where he’s coming from a lot of the time, and you, much like Mello Dude, just come off as a conspiracy theorist that hates DCI.

That's a laugh....I don't think I'd be doing so much volunteer work for DCI if I hated them. But thanks for pointing this out....evidently, part of my message is being lost.

You know, the whole reason I participate in these discussions is to help DCI, not hate on them. DCI needs to break this pattern of introducing additional equipment types that inevitably become costly prerequisites to competitive success. And this isn't just an exercise in preaching to the choir. I saw this coming when A&E were being proposed over and over. I shared my concerns with the voting directors. They voted it down. A&E were proposed yet again. I shared my concerns with the voting directors again. But this time, they ratified amps. Amplification became a prerequisite for competitive success, part of every world-class corps' increasingly large budget....just like Bb/F brass, and several other equipment rule changes before that. And now, electronic instruments have become the next prerequisite in record time....all in one season.

I’m not trying to attack you, I’m just trying to point out the perception your posts create in my mind because of the way you state your viewpoint, not because of your viewpoint itself.

Well, hopefully I have clarified my viewpoint enough so that you can see it's not as tinfoil-hatted as you thought.

[audiodb]

And...still think in terms of the "you dont have to use it" BS trotted out with every new change....perception is reality. you dont use it, you suffer on the sheets

Especially when "it" (i.e. amplification) is on the sheets as one of the criteria.

[Mello Dude]

I'm very confused by the "making sure less people attend every year" statement. Who on DCP is doing this? Or even has the power to "make sure" the audience diminishes?

And I don't understand how you can claim to "know what is accessible and good to the vast majority". Have you done market research? Please provide it if you have, otherwise, how can you back up a statement like that?

I'm not going to sit here and claim that all is right in the world of drum corps, but I think it's equally ridiculous to continue with the whole "the sky is falling" routine just because YOU don't like the way things are right now. Sheesh.

Let me rephrase, "I am not for making, or espousing, rules and changes that makes drum corps less accessible than it already is for audience and corps alike." As for market research, yes, I have actually looked around to see how many people are attending shows...the trending is rather telling. I assume you have bothered to look around at finals and semi's, no? Who says the sky is falling? That train left the station when all the local circuits went away. Hopkins is starting to get it, I hope others do too before something is lost in all our perceived, enlightened new drum corps goes like, "The Emperors New Clothes".

[Mello Dude]

I wouldn’t be so bent out of shape about this post if you presented your side of the argument more fairly. Jeff, for example, often disagrees with my perspective on drum corps but I can’t refute anything he says because he makes his case clearly and fairly. I understand where he’s coming from a lot of the time, and you, much like Mello Dude, just come off as a conspiracy theorist that hates DCI.

Conspiracy theorist? LOL. Gotta love the internet.

[drumguy50]

I am wondering why some proposals say who voted for and against them and others like the new field visual sheet do not have that information. I find it interesting to look at who votes for what.

[Jeff Ream]

Especially when "it" (i.e. amplification) is on the sheets as one of the criteria.

exactly

[Jerseyboy]

LOL. Such thinly veiled swipes at the Scouts.

For that matter, we could go back to 1991 if we wanted Metheny. . . .but I suppose that carries your analogy too far, no?

My point was that arrangers must be creative today.

if the 2010 CROSSMEN Metheny show is a lift or a re do of the 1991 show.Or madison is a lift of previous shows I will turn it off.

What made the Cadets 2009 WWS so good was playing the same tunes differently.

many corps played 'the promise of living but crown gave it a fresh breath.

By the way there is a lot of Metheny music never Played before. like saying if a corps does Copland , or Bernstein , or Shostakovich. do it 2010 not 1976.

Be creative , be innovative , be different.

No jab , just a opinion.

[Jerseyboy]

or Pat Metheny no?

YES...

[xbones7480]

Age 23 votes

Edited January 28, 2010 by xbones7480