Putting my cards on the table

[Dave]

It doesn't really stand for anything, it's actually a Latin word that means "thus" or "like this" or something along those lines. It's used in English usually to show that quoted material was written this way (especially when something is misspelled or something like that).

[Lance]

Somebody once used it on here in a way that made me laugh for about 10 minutes.

[soccerguy315]

What about Mandarins? They've made semifinals with corps around 100.

Also, would you care to explain what Pioneer's placement has to do with them "surviving'? They sure as hell look like survivors to me. You offered no rebuttal to me disproving your contention that "you won't survive very long in world class with 100-110 members", and instead chose to highlight Pioneer's placement and them getting "based" on DCP. Nice work.

yea. every year they have to BEG for members because not enough people want to march there. Sounds like they are off to a good start this year and from what I can tell the guy involved in their brass program who sometimes posts on DCP is 100% class.

Mandarins do a great job with what they have as well. Why do people wait in the lots instead of watching them? Because people don't care about them. And when people don't care about things, those things go away.

A few questions about your statement.

1. Why is it virtually impossible? So far you've given reasons like "Open Class is treated like crap"

2. How has DCI contributed to the challenge facing new corps?

3. What can or should DCI do to make starting a corps more feasible?

Ideas for solutions >> complaints

1. how much money do open class get to appear at shows?

2. how much does DCI market open class corps?

3. how much does DCI encourage corps to recommend OC to the people they cut?

4. DCI has pushed a national touring model

5. DCI has increased the member limit to 150 which pushes more members toward the upper corps.

6. DCI should encourage regional touring

7. DCI should encourage partnerships between new corps and established corps, this way they can get some guidance on camps, travel, how to not run out of food, etc.

You could volunteer, especially if you're 'looking for work' you probably have some time to spare. You could advise young people you know who are looking for a place to march to check out open class. You could go to your high school music program and recruit kids for an Open Class corps. You can help promote local Open Class events. You can attend Open Class only events. Contributions are not necessarily monetary, and I would highly recommend you contribute to the activity before you go on the internet and complain that it's dying.

A lot of the people on here who somewhat share your views of DCI and modern drum corps still do a LOT to support the activity because they love it. If you're putting your time, effort and/or money into the activity, then you have more of a right (in my opinion - obviously you live in America so you have the right to complain about anything and everything all the time) to complain that it's not being run to your liking. In fact, if you took all the time you spend complaining on DCP and volunteered to help an Open Class corps, you could probably do a lot of good.

Unfortunately, there is not an open class corps anywhere near me (less than 4 hours driving). This also makes it hard to suggest it to people who might want to march. There are no local open class events near me. I gave up the opportunity to do internships during undergrad by choosing to march. For my personal future, I am unable to make the same sacrifice this summer to volunteer (or the following summer if I end up at grad school full time). I will continue to work with the local high school marching program as time allows.

Edited February 6, 2010 by soccerguy315

[Shadow_7]

has anyone considered one large issue for using student owned instruments:

liability.

if the bus gets hit or the truck has an accident and equipment gets damaged...who pays? does the corps require the kids t have insurance on it ( adding extra costs) or does the corps cover it ( adding extra costs)?

How is the liability any different than if they owned the horns? It's not like we're running around a football field with $200,000 violins. Although there might be a couple $10K monettes and contras. A lot of times rental agreements include insurance costs. Factor in the other costs of ownership. Storage, maintenance, depreciation, and insurance. And renting can be more cost effective and scalable. Perhaps a bit too complex logistically over the long haul, but still...

[wvu80]

When I marched, and when I'm going to march this summer, I don't really care that much about the cities I'm not seeing. If I wanted to see in-depth views of Denver, San Antonio, Atlanta, and Allentown, then I would just go to those cities. But I don't want to go to those cities, I think that'd actually be pretty boring. I wanna work my butt off and get better at something. And I can't find anything I'd rather do than spend 16 hours a day doing drum corps. If you want to see cities, don't do drum corps. But I'll bet you it's not as rewarding.

Corps are probably more financially aware than a lot of things out there nowadays. They rely heavily on the support of Alumni, and friends who donate extensively. If you'll notice the Troopers' Silver Spur campaign to buy a new food truck. As Fred Morris said "You can't run these things from your kitchen table anymore, it's a business". There are a lot of groups out there treating it as such, and those are the ones succeeding.

It's entirely about the kids. Who are the 20,000 fans at finals cheering for, the design staff? Yeah, it's cool if you meet a person who taught or designed '08 Phantom, but the credit goes to the kids, those are the heroes of the season. After all, they're the ones who are being judged when it really comes down to it. It's about their ability to put themselves in to the show given to them. Design only goes so far. Talk to any corps director. I urge you to watch America's Core, the documentary about Troopers' return to tour, and watch Fred Morris react to the things those kids do. Then come back and tell me it's not about the kids.

And it's not about winning. That's not an empirical statement, of course there are some out there to win it. But I won't say I'm an exception to the rule when I tell you that I had the choice between Troopers and Cadets, and I chose Troopers because it felt more like home. I also went to Troop because I want to say I was a part of making something great, not that I joined something already great. Of course we all want to get better, but a large part of that is challenging ourselves to beat our own expectations, not the corps that's near us in score. It's not about the arrival point, it's the journey one takes to get there.

It's not what you experience. It's who you have those experiences with.

I don't post here on DCP very often, and when I quote a post I usually snip! it, just so others can refer to it if they want to read the whole thing. Your post deserves to be read again, just the way your wrote it.

I logged in just to tell you that it's people like you that give me hope for our country. You certainly sound like a young man who's got his act together, and who knows what is important in life.

Have fun this summer with the Troopers. I'll be in the stands, applauding for you.

-Dave

[Grumpy]

Point of order ( point of my ignorance)

Just what does "(sic)" stand for ?

I see it often but I don't know what it means....color me stupid

I have seen it used when quoting text that has spelling errors and indicates that the original text had incorrect spelling, or at least incorrect spelling for the intended usage (for example, "here" instead of "hear"). Sometimes small errors like that can change the entire context of the quote.

[Jeff Ream]

How is the liability any different than if they owned the horns? It's not like we're running around a football field with $200,000 violins. Although there might be a couple $10K monettes and contras. A lot of times rental agreements include insurance costs. Factor in the other costs of ownership. Storage, maintenance, depreciation, and insurance. And renting can be more cost effective and scalable. Perhaps a bit too complex logistically over the long haul, but still...

thank you, you just proved my point and showed yet another flaw in the argument provided in 1999 to go Bb and that it would help new corps start up by saving on costs

[Cathie Wiener]

I've only been able to read up to page 8, but I have a couple of responses.

That's virtually the same as fees 10 years earlier. Were those typical for division I drum corps in the mid-1990s?

My fees for Freelancers and Blue Knights from 92 through 96 were around $700 for the year. Granted there were additional costs for housing during 10 to 10s, excuse me, all-days and the cost of food and whatnot during that time. Also Freelancers was a little more expensive than Blue Knights, but Freelancers was also "on tour" a lot more than Blue Knights ever was; Blue Knights making good use of the benefits of a more centrally-located base.

Wait....20 year olds get special favors?

Ummm, I did. In my age out year in 96 with Blue Knights. I was not able to participate in guard because of shoulder injuries, so I auditioned for the pit because I had covered a few xylo parts in college and thought I might be okay. I wasn't. Though I could sight read playing piano, this was a whole other ball game. But I went home and practiced like crazy. And every camp, I made a huge improvement. There was nowhere to go but up! When the final 12 members were picked for the pit, I was one of them. I was, by far, still the worst player in the pit. But I worked my tail off in between camps and we had a new pit instructor during camps that year that didn't know me but was impressed with my effort. Later in the season, I thanked one of the instructors for giving me the chance to march this year and he said, it's a good thing I worked as hard as I did and that I was old as I was because I wouldn't have gotten the spot if I was younger.

I was told that because of my age, I was considered an asset to the pit and could help with the younger kids. In fact, my nickname was Yoda. With the bonus year rule, I was one of the oldest members in the corps, if not the oldest. I think the overall picture to focus on here is that I was chosen for my life experience as a 21-year-old that a possibly more skillful 15-year-old just wouldn't have.

I also don't think it came down between me and another person. Our pit camp attendees were pretty steady and I'm almost positive we didn't march a full corps that year. It was pretty much, "Should we let her march or not?" It's a discretionary choice where my age apparently was the deciding factor.

But I think it's the same type of discretionary choice that is made when a corps has to decide between choosing a person with a great personality, that tries really hard and would be a great addition to the culture of a corps and another person that is perhaps more skillful, but has an ego and can possibly cause future problems.

So, to make this short story long... yes, I DO think that 20-year olds can get special favors.