Integration in drum corps?

[bearz]

There is a story about a group of dc members who went to eat in WI, in Waupun I think. Its posted here somewhere. The black person was refused service and I have a vague memory of someone threatening to call the police because it was against the law to refuse service.

I remember being shocked that that would happen in WI. I always considerend WI a progressive state.

Its amazing how far the country has come in 30 or 40 years...and how far behind some places still are.

[SkyRyder_FMM]

My dad told me a story of when he marched in the skyryders in 1955-59, he told me that there was african-americans kids in the drum corps, especially one day they were somewhere in the Oklahoma and they went to a diner the people told them that they didn't serve african americans so all the corp went to eat somewhre else

There is another such story from 1982 I believe. The corps was in a small town in western Kansas and was permitted to have an afternoon in the public pool. But they were told the blacks and hispancis could not use the pool. Everyone in the corps decided not to swim if some of the members would be excluded.

[amadorj]

In the early years of the Santa Clara Vanguard we had a significant number of Latinos (mostly Mexican-Americans) who were members of the corps. Amador's (Jesse, Jim, Tootsie), Munoz (Mike), Martinez (Benji), Canales (Mel), Macias (Steve, Debbie), Sanchez (Fred), Saucedo (Art), Sandoval (Henry), Avarado (Paula, Pricilla, Patrice), Salinas (John & Tim) up until the DCI Years ('72 on) and many others to include black (Barry Turner, Bill Reeves) and asian members (Terry Lee, Mike & Gary Tereo), and many more that I can't remember. Gail Royer didn't look at the ethnic backgrounds of the corps members as we were all just one big bunch of kids to him!

Most of the time when we traveled we had more problems being Californians than our ethnic race.

Edited February 9, 2010 by amadorj

[Jeff Ream]

the Cavies book had some stories about what they experienced

[BRASSO]

Until The Cavaliers and Madison Scouts have a DCI unit that looks more like America, how can one say that DCI has MORE diversity ? I'm not critical of The Cavaliers and the Madison Scouts remaining " All Male ". I think it is their choice, their perogative, and perfectly appropriate in a free society for an organization to want to retain it's preference for Males Only. In this politically correct era it is refeshing that these 2 Corps have been able to retain their traditional preference as to who they want to associate with, and to do so freely and openly.

That said, it is inconceivable that one can then make a claim that DCI has MORE diversity than other youth groups, sports, other enterprises, etc when half the population is excluded from membership to two of DCI's organization's charter member Corps. Corps that discriminate on gender, are not inclusionary, they are, in fact, exclusionary. Thus, there can be no legitimate claim of " diversity ". Diversity requires inclusionary membership. So, while I applaud The Cavaliers and the Madison Scouts quest to remain All Male, it does disabuse us of the notion that DCI offers MORE diversity. An objective analysis would show it does not pass the most basic test of diversity when females are either excluded or not really welcomed to participate at numbers that reflect their numbers in American society at large.

Additionally, there is no current DCI Corps today that has membership numbers of African- Americans that approaches the numbers one routinely found in DCI Corps in previous eras. For Instance, the Bridgemen from Bayonne, New Jersey were a top Corps in the early developmental years of DCI in the 70's early 80's. Their percentage of African -Americans as a percentage of marchers was in the double digit percentile level. When we contrast that with the DCI Corps of today, we find that there is no Corps today in DCI that has as a percentage of marchers a percentile that rises to double digit levels. Almost all DCI Corps of today are underrepresented with African- American marchers. The Corps that APPEARS to have more African- American marchers than any other World Class Corps seems to be the current DCI Champion, the Blue Devils. But this is just my personal observation, more than verifiable data.

In pre DCI days, there were many more African-Americans participating in Corps as a percentage of overall marchers. Some units, located almost entirely from large cities, were made up almost entirely of African- Americans. We also had " All Girl " Corps, and Corps that were primarily Asian- American. I could be wrong, but I believe that we have more Asian- Americans participating in DCI as a percentage of marchers, than DCI has had in previous eras. I also believe DCI has more of it's marchers whose home is abroad, rather than the US. I believe DCI has more Caucasians marching as a percentage of marchers than at any time before in it's history. Again, this would be just from my unobjective, personal observation, nothing that could be verified. But DCI does appear more " white " than in previous eras. It also demographically appears to have more marchers from the South US and Southwestern US than in previous eras as a percentage of location., and as a result there may be more Latinos marching than perhaps earller eras. I also think DCI has more affluent, more higher education percentile marchers, and more rural, more small town, more suburban marchers as a higher percentage of overall participants than perhaps in earlier DCI eras. ...... anyway, that would be my thoughts on diversity ( or lack thereof ) and demographic make up of DCI.

Edited February 9, 2010 by BRASSO

[84BDsop]

Diversity isn;t just about inclusion of Blacks....you have to include Asians, Latinos, etc....AND both genders.

Do a study on that in DCI and then get back to me.

[Fran Haring]

My first year with DCA's Sunrisers..... 1977.... we had an incident in Boston with some locals who took exception to the fact that we had blacks in our corps. To make a long story short.... I remember rehearsing that day for our contest in Boston with several police officers lining the practice field, guarding us.

Fran

[BRASSO]

Diversity isn;t just about inclusion of Blacks....you have to include Asians, Latinos, etc....AND both genders.

Do a study on that in DCI and then get back to me.

Exactly. Despite the fact that America has changed and offers a much more " diverse" populace in the US than say 30-40 years ago, DCI has shown little to no advances regarding more " diversity " among it's ranks. In fact, a compelling argument can be made that DCI is actually LESS diverse today than it was back in the first year of it's inception in the early 1970's.

Edited February 9, 2010 by BRASSO

[84BDsop]

Exactly. Despite the fact that America has changed and offers a " diverse" populace in the US, DCI has shown little to no advances regarding more " diversity " among it's ranks. In fact, a compelling argument can be made that DCI is actually LESS diverse today than it was back in the first year of it's inception in the early 1970's.

You miss my point....if you're making the claim that DCI isn't as diverse as you'd like, I think YOU need to do a more in depth looksee to confirm that....diversity doesn't just mean blacks getting involved....it means EVERYONE.

As for more black corps back int he day, I would argue that was largely because on segregation at the time...where else could they go?

[BRASSO]

You miss my point....if you're making the claim that DCI isn't as diverse as you'd like, I think YOU need to do a more in depth looksee to confirm that....diversity doesn't just mean blacks getting involved....it means EVERYONE.

As for more black corps back int he day, I would argue that was largely because on segregation at the time...where else could they go?

Actually, no, 84BDsop, I am not making the claim that " DCI isn't as diverse as I'D like."

I am simply stating that DCI does not " look like America ".... and it does have 2 of it's Charter Member Corps that are exclusionary on gender. That in of itself makes any claim of providing more " diversity " simply not plausable, nor believable. DCI can not allow 2 Corps to essentially exclude 51% of the American population from full participation and then claim that it fosters " diversity ". And again let me state, I support the right for Corps to maintain their traditions and remain All Male if that is their choice.

African Americans participated in both predominently all black Corps and fully integrated Corps well before integration took full hold in America. When we found so called All Black Corps, we really found that they almost always had some whites in their Corps as well. The reason they were mostly all black was because they came from mostly all black neighborhoods. Corps that came from communities and neighborhoods that had more blacks and whites reflected that in their Corps as well. The Bridgemen thus had a large cross section of both blacks and whites in their Corps because they were a Corps that had blacks and whites in the St. Andews parish of Bayonne from where they started. Blacks participated more in Drum Corps in the 60's and 70's because Corps back then had a visible presence in many large cities. That has essentially disappeared. Blacks still make up a large demographic in the cities. They did not leave. Corps did. Corps moved outward to the suburbs. Thus, to no surprise, blacks as a percentage of marchers overall in DCI is LESS today than when DCI started.

Edited February 9, 2010 by BRASSO