What can we do to improve our corps'?

[buzzgok]

I wanted to thank Jay for being so kind to explain all of it for us. Now- it makes perfect sense. You need a good, competent business model, you need to show you're not some kind of fly-by-night Svengali/Rasputin type of operator (we've had enough of those- they seriously arouse my ire- let's leave it at that!), and really, when I thought of it at work, let's look at what you can do with 35 people from your 10,000 person burg.

Let's say... a nice guard of 8 people. (Most would hope for half this, I'd guess...)

20 horns- 2-4 Contra/4-6 Bari/4-6 Mello/ 8 Tpt/Sop... I think that's a reasonable little horn line that would be agile and capable, IF they all listen, do not overextend and try to be superheroes, and the arrangements fit the individuals like gloves)

Leaving say... a front percussion ensemble of 7 to handle all that would entail. I know that no amount of Strohs and fast-talk or money will convince Jeff to carry a triple Bass rig and run like a madman/beast in my corps while playing it, even a hypothetical one. I'm not a percussion expert, but I'd think seven could cover necessary percussive duties. If not, I'll trade you one or two horns. Would that help?

You could do some very creative and exciting things with a small unit like this, but it would also rely on a very well-trained group that understood their individual responsibilities and busted their humps to make it happen to carry this off. A smaller group would really be stretched to make something happen on a meaningful level outdoors. I'm buying into things now, thanks to hearing some clear explanations from thoughtful people and having some time to think carefully about it.

If you want to see what a bare minimum drumline would look like, take a look at the service corps. I know the Marines usually use 5-6 snare, 2 tenors and 4 bass drums. So you would need at least 11 to 12 more bodies and that does not even include the pit and cymbals. Marines have 2 keyboards that usually plant on the front sideline during the field show and you have no problem hearing them play. I don't remember how many plates, I mean cymbals they have though. I think they usually have 2 which is not enough to cover the snares for any ride parts. Four bass drums make it hard to write complete phrases, 5 makes it easier. Why the service corps go with bare minimum numbers in the drumline, I'm not sure. I hope someone can explain that to me.

[Jeff Ream]

they probably go with what makes the cut Scott, or what they have funding/equipment for. The Marines never have an issue arranging for 4 basses, and in fact, their writing is usually awesome. With Navy, I have seen the size fluctuate, usually based on how many people audition

[Fran Haring]

Raise minicorps to 25

I've mentioned this before, but I would agree with raising the mini-corps total to 25.... based on what Larry Kerchner had to say about the subject in a Drum Corps World Interview a couple of years ago. His point was that a 25-member total would give arrangers a bit more flexibility with brass/percussion, and that makes sense to me.

But more than 25? No. For a variety of reasons. One of those reasons is venue logistics.

I think there's an assumption out there that mini-corps want to "move up" and become competitive DCA corps..... but I'm not sure that's the case for many of them. I think a number of them are happy with being mini-corps. I could be wrong on this. I've been wrong on a lot of stuff.

Fran

Edited April 23, 2010 by Fran Haring

[jeff danchik]

I've mentioned this before, but I would agree with raising the mini-corps total to 25.... based on what Larry Kerchner had to say about the subject in a Drum Corps World Interview a couple of years ago. His point was that a 25-member total would give arrangers a bit more flexibility with brass/percussion, and that makes sense to me.

But more than 25? No. For a variety of reasons. One of those reasons is venue logistics.

I think there's an assumption out there that that mini-corps want to "move up" and become competitive DCA corps..... but I'm not sure that's the case for many of them. I think a number of them are happy with being mini-corps. I could be wrong on this. I've been wrong on a lot of stuff.

Fran

We have 6 percussion in our minicorps with one mallet spot we'd like to fill.That leaves a max of 14 horns, but leaves the inner voices like 2&3 sop and bari thin and covered by one player only.A group of 18 and 7 would be nice.More to come from us but not before its time.But the minicorps is doing well.Next step parade corps kings of South Western PA.

[OldStyleCorps]

Many Good things said for size problem. (35 Rule)

I just chose 29 & 30 that could help solve "that" problem. BUT, like the playing with the numbers.

25 Mini / 30 Field or 29/35, might be a reasonable idea also. Four or Five (person differance or so ) is a reasonable Number. Many may be able to work around that. BUT, 14 or so IS a BIG number.

As to mini going to the field. Some may choose to STAY "Mini". Fine. Groups like Star, Mass Brass, Ghost Riders, etc may choose to do just that. Others may just want to keep things going, and USE "Mini" as a way to do that, till things improve.

With the 21 number in place. "Mini CORPS" has become a 20 piece "Brass Wind Ensemble" with a Drum set. Adding 4 to 8 people would open "Mini CORPS" to be more like a "Corps" and less like a Large "Brass Wind Ensemble". It might make for less Movement by a group on the stage. BUT, I doubt there would be a problem fitting on the stage. Heck, if you want just add some Flags behind, as a back drop. For some of the smaller units it could add a little color and a look of being larger. A visual thing.

Also like another person said. More Horns, and DRUMS (Percusion), will give more af a rendering of whatever is being played.

Any way just some ideas, on possible things that can make BOTH, "Mini CORPS" and the "Field Corps" units more available to take part. Maybe save a group from going "In active" or less active.

[Xsnaredrummer]

Raise minicorps to 25, if they have a movement criteria,25-35 exhibition class.No share points,no score but maybe a GE type read of the show to give groups some pointers.Show sponsors encouraged to invite new groups.36+ competes.

I don't think "encouraging" sponsors is going to help the small guys. I'd pay the exhibition corps, not the same as a competing but something to help them.

Now so I can understand can someone explain how share points work? Is it different between open and class A? etc. etc. ... I like detail so someone please explain it please and thank you

[BigW]

Scott- having the bare-bones percussion section you outline takes you to 16 percussion and then runs you up to about a 45 member corps- a corps with a composition much like the Boston Crusaders fronted circa 1979-1981ish in Open Class DCI and actually did very well against quite a few corps when all was said and done.

Likely more than coincidence.

Anyhow- if you wanted the percussion on the field and marching- I guess if you wanted something that wasn't ridiculous, you'd be looking at 45 peeps, actually.

And I've thought about the whole mini- to field corps jump. 20 makes sense with the minis- One percussionist usually, 18 horns, one conductor, and they usually play in smaller, more intimate settings, in a standstill packed in. They pack enough firepower to get it done where they need to get it done.

The jump from going to putting a workable mini together to a field unit is a jump of a few orders of magnitude. The comment about many groups not necessarily wanting to move up is very appropriate and correct, I'd wager. Costs for equipment. Travel. Instruction. Uniforms. Arrangements. Many more shekels and pazzozzas would have to go into fronting the group when compared to the mini.

And... if you have your 20-man mini, fleshing out that mini with percussion and guard should get you to the 35 person min anyhow.

And I'm not going to even talk about the cost and logistics incurred by trying to move up and make the jump.

Also- how many Minis are turning people away because they already have enough people? I don't know the answer. That being said, it wouldn't take very many people looking to put something together if they were shut out to make their own group...

[jeff danchik]

I don't think "encouraging" sponsors is going to help the small guys. I'd pay the exhibition corps, not the same as a competing but something to help them.

Now so I can understand can someone explain how share points work? Is it different between open and class A? etc. etc. ... I like detail so someone please explain it please and thank you

You don't get much to begin with, if anything at all. Most of the time you're just looking for the oppurtunity to get out there.

[Jeff Ream]

Many Good things said for size problem. (35 Rule)

I just chose 29 & 30 that could help solve "that" problem. BUT, like the playing with the numbers.

25 Mini / 30 Field or 29/35, might be a reasonable idea also. Four or Five (person differance or so ) is a reasonable Number. Many may be able to work around that. BUT, 14 or so IS a BIG number.

As to mini going to the field. Some may choose to STAY "Mini". Fine. Groups like Star, Mass Brass, Ghost Riders, etc may choose to do just that. Others may just want to keep things going, and USE "Mini" as a way to do that, till things improve.

With the 21 number in place. "Mini CORPS" has become a 20 piece "Brass Wind Ensemble" with a Drum set. Adding 4 to 8 people would open "Mini CORPS" to be more like a "Corps" and less like a Large "Brass Wind Ensemble". It might make for less Movement by a group on the stage. BUT, I doubt there would be a problem fitting on the stage. Heck, if you want just add some Flags behind, as a back drop. For some of the smaller units it could add a little color and a look of being larger. A visual thing.

Also like another person said. More Horns, and DRUMS (Percusion), will give more af a rendering of whatever is being played.

Any way just some ideas, on possible things that can make BOTH, "Mini CORPS" and the "Field Corps" units more available to take part. Maybe save a group from going "In active" or less active.

I'm glad to see Star doesn't go the 20 and 1 route...and their sound is fabulous

[Donny Drum Corps]

The Ghost Riders (from Parts Unknown) usually use 2 percussionists...one on set and the other on concert accessories (timpani. gong, concert bass, suspended cymbals etc....). We have been fortunate to have cats like Rick Rogers (rest his soul) and Bill McGrath Jr as our set player, so they really dont play it like set, they cover many parts that a drum line would play.

DA