Has the view of 'Senior' Corps changed lately in DCI?

[Shadow_7]

Are you kidding me?!?

13/28 - 46% - "northeast"

8/28 - 29% - "south"

5/28 - 18% - "midwest"

2/28 - 7% - "west"

how is that not a strong foundation in the east?

also 15/21 shows (including finals) are on the east coast.

Are those current stats? or last years stats? Because there is a noticeable difference. i.e. There are corps from Rochester, not making it TO Rochester this year. Also factor in number of corps per state, versus number of DCA corps per state. My state has close to 12 corps. Only 1 of which was DCA (prelims competitor / and finalist) last year. 3 of which were DCI. 6 of which are Shriners, Most of which (or a good percentage / > 25% ) performed at DCA (like) shows last year. (you may now enter the field for judged exhibition).

Some of the best hornlines I've played in were DCA hornlines. Whether or not they played on par with my seasoned DCI corps WHILE marching, debatable. But they were both good hornlines. DCA corps participation can draw on you. Especially if it's not convenient. That 7 hour drive (and $30+ in gas) every weekend for the 3 primary months of competition can draw you down hard. To the point that you're debating whether to go to camp this weekend, or wake up monday with your $100 still in your pocket. I know, not fair to your corps, but plenty fair to you. It's a hard choice and a conscious choice in all-age, as there's always NEXT year. Unlike DCI, where this is it, do or don't.

.... some wise crack about performing on horse tracks, soccer fields, baseball fields, hockey stadiums, ...... ... WHAT? They still make football fields? How come I've never seen one?

[SF2K4]

As someone who squandered what could have been a long and fruitful drum corps career and regrets it daily I personally cannot wait to get through this last summer of classes (ne'er again with the summer classes... too much sun for all this crap) and get back on the field. Sure, I enjoy college band, but I miss real shows and real fans.

[mchromik]

Star did not do Pines of Rome, which is interesting because when I was told about the show concept, that was the first song that popped into my head. I do believe the last DCA corps to do PoR was the Cabs.

(In best Comic Book Man voice) Well actually..... Star's 91' show was composed of selections from Pines of Rome (Pines of the Villa Borghese, Pines near a Catacomb) and Roman Festivals (Circuses, The Epiphany). The Pines of the Appian Way appears in motif form as well.

The Cavaliers played the Pines of the Appian Way twice in the early eighties to great effect.

I think it is awesome when corps do great music despite the fact others might have done it. Different arrangers and different approaches usually result in something unique, despite the obvious comparison to what came before.

As to the topic. I frankly find this debate somewhat disappointing. As a drum corps fan I enjoy all drum corps. I can find something positive in most anyone. Sure the average DCI corps performs at a higher level then the average DCA unit. They work extremely hard and it shows. On the other hand the variety of programing and more audience focused approach of DCA has much to offer. I am always amazed at what they do given the limited practice time. As a fan, I enjoy both and cannot understand how one can say the enjoy one be critical of the other.

[VOReason]

Really, there is a revolution happening in DCA where a lot of corps are upping the ante on their programming and speeding up tempos and adding some difficulty. It isn't just marching 120 and then standing still and blowing the house down anymore. There are some serious programs out there.

The "revolution" was happening as far back as 1988 and perhaps beyond, depending on the corps. In fact there were DCA corps from 1988 (and earlier) doing more in terms of demand than many of the top DCA corps today. Case in point:

1988:

(pardon the circa '88 audio/visual recording)

2009:

Edited April 22, 2010 by VOReason

[JimF-LowBari]

I marched a DCA corps (that shall remain nameless) in 2006, then went on to my current DCI career in 2007 and now again this year.

I, for one, had a good time doing it, being fresh out of high school, but felt like it wasn't really that much harder than high school. Sure, the parts were louder, and everyone played them louder, but that was about it. The drill was park and bark for most of the show, and the stuff we did march never got above just shy of a 6 to 5. The music was easy, and felt more driven toward crowd pleasing than actually trying to win. Which, don't get me wrong, it's great to play for the crowd, but playing come to jesus in whole notes isn't going to get you out of the bottom half of the rankings.

The age difference was also a little on the rough side for me. There were only a small handful of people even close to my age, and everyone else was at least 35. They had little to no regard for the younger members, and typically looked down upon us in terms of marching and playing. As for their willingness to learn, sure it was there, but their stubbornness proved to be too much to change anything major in terms of technique and often made learning new drill sets or even exercises in visual rehearsal difficult and slow moving.

If you've never experienced anything but DCA (and it may be different for other corps) then it can be a lot of fun; but if you're like me and love the discipline and talent levels in DCI, then DCA can be a summer full of being angry at your fellow members and looking way more forward to the day after finals than one should.

Again, this is all my experience...I don't want to offend anyone.

If this a beginning for the corps then I can see how this might have been the only option. But if corps BoD expects to continue like this it can only bite them in the butt in the long term (if there is a long term). Had a local corps like this BITD (ain't naming names) which had a mix of youth and mature members that just went out for the fun and to entertain the crowd. Problem was they had no plans to improve in the future and lot of the younger members ended up going to another corps that also had a wide range of ages but had a long term plans of being (eventually) a top DCA corps. Bottom line was these younger members wanted more so they just left after they got some experience. If there hadn't been another corps aroud lot of them would have just left.

I can dig not having too many people near your age can suck. I joined at 16 but had a large influx of under 21s (about 50%) so I was able to find a group to hang with. And there was some culture shock between the groups at times. Especially between a few of the "we used to drink beer and play" mature folks and the "work our ###es off so we can beat someone" younger group.

[JimF-LowBari]

PLEASE READ YOUR HISTORY BOOKS

Senior corps begot junior corps to fill their ranks - train recruits.... No senior corps activity - No junior activity.... Many if not MOST dci instructors worked dca first..... including Wayne Downey... While I have no problem with having the differences between the two pointed out... I take great exception to those who do NOT recognize where it all started... read the history books...

And to prove you're never too old to learn. At age 45 I picked up "History of Drum Corps" and learned the role of the Sons of the American Legion in building the Jr corps movement. In a sound bite: In 1919 after the end of WWI the American Legion was started hundreds and hundreds of the individual Posts started a D&BC. As all corps members belonged to the Posts they would be Senior corps. The AL and VFW had the big contests and basically set the rules as Drum Corps evolved.

Come mid 1930s the WWI vets were getting older and realized if they wanted the AL and it's values to continue, they'd better pass the torch to the next generation. They never thought there would be a big influx of members because anything like the "War to End All Wars" would never happen again. (So much for that idea. ) So the AL started the Sons of the American Legion (SAL) as a way to provide activities and pass the AL values to the youth. And yes one of those activities was Drum Corps which took off and grew almost as much as the AL Sr corps. There were Jr corps before this, just like there were Sr corps before 1919 but the huge growth start was the AL for both.

So going back the "family tree", the Sr AL corps begot the Jr AL corps which begot the DCI corps of today. Just ask the corps formerly sponsored by Garfield Memorial (along with Holy Name Church) and the corps from Park Ridge which had many AL sponsors over the years.

PS - Ownership of "Pine of Rome", first thing I thought of was:

1975 Hawthorne Muchachos - DCI (Cabs did same show in early 2000s as tribute)

1976 Rochester Phoenix - DCA

Edited April 22, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[goalieguy]

The ONLY thing drum corps has in common with hockey........ is that sometimes when I'm running the clock and playing music at one of my sons' hockey games.....I slip in some drum corps music! Oh, the looks....

The opening few measures from Bridgemen '78 is a good way to kick off the season when the kids first step on the ice, by the way.

Small world: I have now met not one, but TWO referees with drum corps connections (one had a kid in Phantom..or maybe it was Madison; the other marched). Both of their reactions were identical. They heard the music, got a quizzical look on their face, skated over to the scorer's area and asked me......hey - is that drum corps music you're playing???

Now THERE'S a hockey dad true to my own heart!! I spent many hours behind the glass either running the clock or handling a 'sin bin' gate..

Your choice is the absolutely PERFECT intro music for youth hockey..Funny I never thought of that show myself - it's one of my all-time favorites..Probably would have made it warmer in the rink

Personally, I would have played through the entire opener either during warmups or as teams would be introduced during a tournament..Ritual Fire Dance / Sabre Dance is such a great way to get the blood pumping.

Pat

Edited April 22, 2010 by goalieguy

[audiodb]

OTOH, 30% of the DCA finalists from 2000 are not competing in 2010, while 100% of the DCI World class finalists are still competing.

Oh, please. Two of those three corps just announced a one-year hiatus, and you are already spinning this to make it sound like a decade-long trend?

If you go back 20 years, to 1990, 25% of the DCI finalists are gone, while 40% of the DCA corps no longer compete.

And if you go back to 1972 or 1973, four out of 12 finalists still compete today for both DCI and DCA. So much for your point.

But what was your point, anyway? What does it really mean to look only at how many finalists are still around? Maybe in your mind, you think that proves DCI corps are healthier than DCA corps. Perhaps it only really proves that there is more competitive stagnation and greater disparity between haves and have-nots in DCI than in DCA.

Look beyond just the finalists. No matter how you cherry-pick statistics, the number of junior corps has been dropping throughout DCI's existence. The number of all-age competitors in North America, however, held pretty steady from 1976-2004, and has been a little higher 2005-2009. There might be something we can learn from that....interested?

[JimF-LowBari]

Well let's cherry pick the number of corps that came into existance between 2000-2010 between DCI and DCA. On one side more All-Age corps have been created, especially among the smaller corps. On the other side, most of those new All Agres have come from areas that didn't have a All-Age corps which wasn't good.

Hmmm, or cherry pick the number of corps that have goen into hiatus and been able to come back between the circuits.

"Give me enough statistics and I can prove Rhode Island is bigger than Texas" <mid 1960s Mad Magazine>

[audiodb]

Well let's cherry pick the number of corps that came into existance between 2000-2010 between DCI and DCA. On one side more All-Age corps have been created, especially among the smaller corps. On the other side, most of those new All Agres have come from areas that didn't have a All-Age corps which wasn't good.

Hmmm, or cherry pick the number of corps that have goen into hiatus and been able to come back between the circuits.

"Give me enough statistics and I can prove Rhode Island is bigger than Texas" <mid 1960s Mad Magazine>

Rhode Island is bigger than Texas. Twice as many words, and over double the number of letters.

Both DCI and DCA have a number of corps that have returned from hiatus. More importantly, both Brigs and Cru are veterans of that process. And it wasn't just the '90s Brigadiers returning after nearly two decades of inactivity, either....the 1962 corps took a one-year break from field competition. Still had a corps, even performed a full field show in exhibition. They went back into the fray in '63 like nothing had ever been amiss.