Official DCP G7 Proposal Discussion Thread

[Jeff Ream]

the band director gets flyers. they may or may not hang them up. end of marketing.

and is that DCI's fault?

Menc also pushed DCI...and if band directors ignore that, is that DCI's fault?

if we're all saying DCi needs to keep expenses down and give more to the corps, how would you suggest getting the word to kids outside of Facebook or Twitter or DCP?

[Richard]

Just what is it that the G7 knows that the rest of us don't?

This insinuates they know something that the non-G7 corps don't know as well, else they would be on board with the plan, or at least pushing back on DCI's current business plan, correct? I find that very VERY hard to believe.

[craiga]

Both Matt S and corpsband seem to think that the G7 directors "know something" that we do not, and that is why they acted. I suggest instead that all they know (or at least value) is their unbridled blind ambition to transform their particular groups into a Cirque de Soleil/Stars on Ice kind of travelling extravaganza.....and, they wanted the rest of DCI to subsidize it.

I say that if that's what they want to morph their groups into, fine. Break away from DCI and have a Blast.

The rest of us will continue to enjoy outdoor, competitive, drum corps with no artificial barriers, so the Crowns of the future can rise to prominence.

[Matt_S]

But Valenzuela, Fiedler and whoever the 4th G7 board member was (Glasgow?) all voted FOR the business plan in September. Do you really think some mystery occurence changed DCI so dramatically that those three suddenly reversed their view of the business plan?

Yes, I do. Cause and effect. I see the effect, so I am assuming a cause. audiodb was correct to point out that we don't know how fully each director supports the G7 proposal. For that matter, we don't even have a G7 proposal, only a powerpoint presentation used to pitch it. But Hopkins and Glasgow were removed, while Fiedler and Valenzuela voluntarily resigned. If we assume that the board shakeup was due to the G7 proposal, would Hopkins and Glasgow be removed if they weren't in support of the proposal? Would Fiedler and Valenzuela have resigned if they were happy with the current business plan and its progress? These events didn't happen in a vacuum.

Matt, do me a favor. Get to know some of the people involved in the activity heavily, like people who attend meetings in Indianapolis, and see what they think of George Hopkins. I'd bet they all respect him for his qualities mentioned by others (being a fabulous "idea guy", what he's done with YEA and The Cadets, etc.), but I bet they'll all say he's a snake if you get them to talk candidly enough. He's looking out for #1, which I have no problem with, just don't do it at the expense of DCI.

We don't know each other beyond a screen name, so I'm not trying to presume anything. Have you met Hopkins? Have you gotten any of the people who do know him to talk candidly about him, or call him a snake? I'm honestly curious to know if you speak from a position of experience or an assumption. I'll be honest that your words come across as condescending, and it's not the first time I've seen you talk down to others on this board.

[corpsband]

and is that DCI's fault?

Menc also pushed DCI...and if band directors ignore that, is that DCI's fault?

if we're all saying DCi needs to keep expenses down and give more to the corps, how would you suggest getting the word to kids outside of Facebook or Twitter or DCP?

So you're agreeing it probably isn't very effective.

I think some of the ideas in G7 proposal would be pretty effective. (from an earlier msgs of mine...)

FWIW I think the HS band vision is:

a) get a lot more kids and their parents to shows

b) generate more awareness of DC at the HS level. most HS kids have never been to DCI show. many haven't seen a video.

c) run more clinic-type activities to accomplish (a) and (b) as well as getting housing for free and generating some income off the clinic

The audience for "marching music" is huge. While I agree that some of those people go to MB shows to see "little Johnny or Susie" many of them actual become somewhat knowledgeable about the activity and become true "fans". But nearly all of those fans are ignorant of drum corps! I think part of what the G7 is proposing is to connect with those fans -- to become part of the broader landscape of the activity. If a drum corps comes to your school and runs a clinic, not only do they engage the students -- they engage the potential audience members. It's a path to more fans *and* more members.

[Matt_S]

Both Matt S and corpsband seem to think that the G7 directors "know something" that we do not, and that is why they acted.

I have never said such a thing. I am firmly confident that everyone involved in DCI's decision-making process knows a great many more than I do about the situation. I do not limit this to only the G7 directors.

[audiodb]

Do you see that happening? I think it's wonderful that final 2009 was financially successful but I'm guessing that was due entirely to the deal they struck with Indy -- not because it was so well attended.

Well, they did claim that the deals Indy gives DCI make up for the lower attendance of championship week. But there's a whole season of other events, too, and it appears DCI is working that angle as well.

Just what is it that the G7 knows that the rest of us don't?

Not you too? Why do you presume the "G7" know something that the rest of the world doesn't....or that they even agree in the first place?

I suspect they know that 2 key number (number of participant and number of fans) is *not* growing.

So what next, then?

Fans: The G7 approach lacks logic. If they're such a "draw", how come the fan base is not growing? They speak of "aligning" with the rest of marching music, but the only idea I've seen that really does that is the concept of reaching out to HS bands as show sponsors....help them establish new revenue to fight budget cuts, while helping us grow the event sponsor base and connect with kids by the bandful. And that was in the DCI business plan.

Participants: You can't grow participation much without more corps. The G7 Hopkins' proposal makes no attempt to grow participation, while the DCI 5-year plan does.

[Jeff Ream]

So you're agreeing it probably isn't very effective.

I think some of the ideas in G7 proposal would be pretty effective. (from an earlier msgs of mine...)

FWIW I think the HS band vision is:

a) get a lot more kids and their parents to shows

b) generate more awareness of DC at the HS level. most HS kids have never been to DCI show. many haven't seen a video.

c) run more clinic-type activities to accomplish (a) and (b) as well as getting housing for free and generating some income off the clinic

The audience for "marching music" is huge. While I agree that some of those people go to MB shows to see "little Johnny or Susie" many of them actual become somewhat knowledgeable about the activity and become true "fans". But nearly all of those fans are ignorant of drum corps! I think part of what the G7 is proposing is to connect with those fans -- to become part of the broader landscape of the activity. If a drum corps comes to your school and runs a clinic, not only do they engage the students -- they engage the potential audience members. It's a path to more fans *and* more members.

how do you propose to get bands and kids to shows? just saying you have them wont work.

when it comes to schools, you can advertise all you want. If the band director wants nothing to do with it, you lose. There are far more schools out there that want nothing to do with competition and/or drum corps influence than there are those that do. So how do you propose breaking thru to them?

and on pont 3...again...how do you propose to get the kids to the clinics? how do you propose to advertise it? DCI and MENC working together is a good thing, but if the directors file 13 the stuff when it comes in, what do you suggest?

This is where I have said before, even angering Jacobs, that DCI has dropped some marketing balls. They need to find way to reach kids besides the band programs...because if the director or school is against it, that door remains closed.

I have no problems with reaching out to kids...read what I have said before. But you cant cast away the fans already there just for getting those kids. you have to keep one and build the new too.

so...what do you propose to do to reach the kids? just having those super shows and clinics isnt going to work...you have to market it...and to be honest, I'm not sure the G7 have any really good ideas and i'll tell you why ( and paraphrase Hop's quote that raised a furor)

40-50 year old white men don't know what attracts teens or how to market to them.

[corpsband]

Not you too? Why do you presume the "G7" know something that the rest of the world doesn't....or that they even agree in the first place?

I presume that those six other directors were pretty strongly motivated by something to allow Hop to fly to chicago and give that proposal. I also presume they knew that proposal would eventually leak. So what motivates those guys to do that?

A naked power grab ? Greed ? A disregard for the rest of DCI ? They were worried about Madison becoming successful?

[audiodb]

You're still making assumptions about my position. In fact, the second line I quoted is a blatant straw man.

DCI is clearly doing some things right, even a majority of things right. But something is amiss or we wouldn't have the G7 proposal, and I want to find out what that is. The G7 powerpoint was clearly spun to support that ideas presented. No question. But the DCI article was clearly spun to assure readerships that everything is fine and wonderful. I'm not ready to buy that either. It could be that the G7 was blowing smoke up our collective #####, but they had to had to get that smoke from a fire somewhere.

The sky must be falling someplace!

Something is amiss enough so that seven corps got together to propose radical changes to the current touring model. Something is amiss enough that the board voted not to renew Dan's contract. Something is amiss enough that directors of the proposed AA corps shook up the board to give themselves more power. Something is amiss enough that Jeff Fiedler and Rick Valenzuela, after keeping their positions on the board, still felt the need to resign.

Trust in DCI's leadership all you want. Until we have the missing piece to explain each of these events, then we're still missing a piece of the puzzle.

Of course something is amiss. Someone keeps writing PowerPoint power grabs....that is what is amiss.