Who will blink first - G7 or S(sweet)16?

[BRASSO]

When DCi was formed back in 72, there were over hundreds of corps that benefited form that decision, there were loads of fans and tons of "blood" to sustain and grow the new model..there is no such animal in 2010..its clearly this is all about greed no matter how much you disagree, it is NOT about giving kids opportunity to march drum corps and fans to witness the best "drum corps" in the world.....its a niche group of a niche activity that simply will not generate enough interst or money to sustain and grow, and none of them have the insight or brains to create and grow such a model..I mean, look at the proposal and previous decisions..I rest my case.

G

Well said..... also, DCI has been around close to 40 years now. What is the LONG term plan of 3-7 Corps if they split off from DCI and go out on their own ? Do they see themselves.... 3-7 of them.... competing against one another for a decade or more ? If not, then they'd be going off a cliff together for a few years only. And if they do think... 3-7 of them... that they can do this for a decade or more, this poster simply disagrees that they could make it work that long. People are going to get pretty bored and tired if there are only 3-7 Corps competing against one another for more than a year or two. Especially the band market they'll supposedly be marketing themselves too. And the BLAST model is not analogous... as these were performers OUT of college, on a 12 month job, and with bookings all over the world, and with a lot less performers than even ONE Drum Corps has.

This G-7 group, or some of the 7, may very well decide to leave DCI. If t comes to that, I'd say" Adios Amigos", rather than submit to their attempt at a power grab and an attempt to remake DCI into their own little Fiefdom. The Sun does not rise and set on these 7 Corps no matter what they may think. The DCI cupboard will by no means be bare if the Blue Stars, Madison Scouts, Boston Crusaders, Crossmen, Troopers, BlueKnghts, Colts, Spirit of Atlanta, and others are

still around. Plus, I would not be surprised at all if a few of the G-7 Corps decide not to leave DCI with the others in the G-7. If 2-3 decide that " No... this doesn't look like a well thought out plan ", the scheme could all apart. Add 2 or 3 of the G-7 that are peeled off and decide to stay with their brethern Corps in DCI, and DCI then looks like it would have a much better chance of surviving long term than the few that decided to go off into the wild blue yonder with their scheme whose details " they'll fill in later and as they go along".

Edited June 9, 2010 by BRASSO

[Scoutnout]

Yes there were more fans back then,,... the world was different also and that DOES have alot to do with it from membership to fans. It was everything you said But tell me other than a select # of corps how did hundreds benefit from the formation of DCI. All i know is i saw hundreds fold and YES it had to do with the NEW FORMAT called DCI.

My point in all this is that a select few power houses can do some damage and evoke change.

I will say to the 7.....It's very arrogant to think you can do all this without backlash and arrogant to think you can do this alone. On the other hand its just as arrogant for the rest of us to think that there is strength in those 7. Ignore and think they dont have a chance, thats like many did back in the 70s and when you least expect it there will only be 7 left period!.Just look back.

Sorry I meant to say that we are blind and just as arrogant if we think that there isnt strength in those 7. Now I want to say as I hate alot of what the G7 want BUT it makes no sense to me or to think that in2010 that Drum Corps should stay status Quo. This is a new Century, new type of kids. To me is just as arrogant to think things should be the same and not change from my day as a member. If Drum Corps Back in the 70s didnt take a drastic move to evoke change we wouldnt have what we have had in our activity.

Just my opinion

[Scoutnout]

Well said..... also, DCI has been around close to 40 years now. What is the LONG term plan of 3-7 Corps if they split off from DCI and go out on their own ? Do they see themselves.... 3-7 of them.... competing against one another for a decade or more ? If not, then they'd be going off a cliff together for a few years only. And if they do think... 3-7 of them... that they can do this for a decade or more, this poster simply disagrees that they could make it work that long. People are going to get pretty bored and tired if there are only 3-7 Corps competing against one another for more than a year or two. Especially the band market they'll supposedly be marketing themselves too. And the BLAST model is not analogous... as these were performers OUT of college, on a 12 month job, and with bookings all over the world, and with a lot less performers than even ONE Drum Corps has.

This G-7 group, or some of the 7, may very well decide to leave DCI. If t comes to that, I'd say" Adios Amigos", rather than submit to their attempt at a power grab and an attempt to remake DCI into their own little Fiefdom. The Sun does not rise and set on these 7 Corps no matter what they may think. The DCI cupboard wil by no means be bare if the Blue Stars, Madison Scouts, Boston Crusaders, Crossmen, Troopers, BlueKnghts, Colts, Spirit of Atlanta, and others are

stilll around. Plus, I would not be surprised at all, that if a few Corps decide to go out on their own, that 2-3 decide that " No... this doesn't look like a well thought out plan ". Add 2 or 3 of the G-7that decide to stay with their brethern Corps in DCI, and DCI looks like it would have a much better chance then of surviving long term than the few that decided to go off ino the wild blue yonder with their scheme.

Hey I agree with ya ...somewhat..All i keep saying is that either way Change WILL happen if this G7 goes through or not.

As for Blast I saw it twice, once by force because of students I had that were in it. It bored me to death..and No it wasn't , as another poster said marketed to the masses, it had horrible reviews in fact If i remember correctly it said it was like watching High School Band bang their way through a 90 min show. It lasted like it did for other reasons and marketed to bands ALOT.

I do wonder if given the oppurtunity whoever is close to the G7 status on your list above which one would jump ships in a heart beat and Join them.

Just a thought

[BRASSO]

Sorry I meant to say that we are blind and just as arrogant if we think that there isnt strength in those 7. Now I want to say as I hate alot of what the G7 want BUT it makes no sense to me or to think that in2010 that Drum Corps should stay status Quo. This is a new Century, new type of kids. To me is just as arrogant to think things should be the same and not change from my day as a member. If Drum Corps Back in the 70s didnt take a drastic move to evoke change we wouldnt have what we have had in our activity.

Just my opinion

The notion that the Drum and Bugle Corps movement has been " status quo " the last 35 years just boggles the mind. No other activity or sport has undergone more of a transformation than the Drum Corps movement. The changes that have taken place in other activities and sports since the 70's pales to the changes that have taken place in Drum Corps. A compelling case could be made that the Drum Corps movement moved TOO rapidly, made too many radical changes, and lost itself in the process and that we are at a precarious position of no growth, fewer Corps, fewer fans, etc precisely BECAUSE of the myriad of changes that did not provide anywhere near the hoped for results. The Drum Corps movement has been mostly " status quo " oriented the last 3 decades ? Whoa, I can't agree with that. It's been just the opposite,... ie, more changes than one could shake a stick at, imo. What is MOST ironic it seems to me is that the same G-7 architects that are calling for more radical transformations and claim that the activity is losing fans, not providing revenue streams, and is in dire financial staits, etc are mostly the very same people in DCI that pushed for the changes that did more to put us in this difficult situation.

It's like finding the fox in the chicken coop with no chickens and with chicken feathers all around the ears, eyes, mouth of the fox and the fox has that look on his face as he looks at you, seemingly asking... " hey, where did all the chickens go ? "

Edited June 9, 2010 by BRASSO

[Scoutnout]

The notion that the Drum and Bugle Corps movement has been " status quo " the last 35 years just boggles the mind. No other activity or sport has undergone more of a transformation than the Drum Corps movement. The changes that have taken place in other activities and sports since the 70's pales to the changes that have taken place in Drum Corps. A compelling case could be made that the Drum Corps movement moved TOO rapidly, made too many radical changes, and lost itself in the process and that we are at a precarious position of no growth, fewer Corps, fewer fans, etc precisely BECAUSE of the myriad of changes that did not provide anywhere near the hoped for results. The Drum Corps movement has been mostly " status quo " oriented the last 3 decades ? Whoa, I can't agree with that. It's been just the opposite,... ie, more changes than one could shake a stick at, imo. What is MOST ironic it seems to me is that the same G-7 architects that are calling for more radical transformations and claim that the activity is losing fans, not providing revenue streams, and is in dire financial staits, etc are mostly the very same people in DCI that pushed for the changes that did more to put us in this difficult situation.

It's like finding the fox in the chicken coop with no chickens and with chicken feathers all around the ears, eyes, mouth of the fox and the fox has that look on his face as he looks at you, seemingly asking... " hey, where did all the chickens go ? "

Im really sorry Im not expressing this right. I am for the most part agreeing with you. YES you are right . What I meant was maybe continual change...not the same as the past decade or decades..maybe i used the wrong word sorry. There has been lots of change over the years, many feel that it should be the way its been or was in another time. maybe not you but many

[MikeD]

According to many the tee shirt was sold back in 71 or drum corps died then....lol

What is interesting about that is that the three corps that the t-shirt was aimed at...Madison, Cavies and to a lesser extent Garfield (as the shirt came from the mid-west), still exist.

[MikeD]

This is is the most likely occurrence, in my opinion.

The G7 can't survive without DCI . . .at least not yet. Conversely, the other 16 corps aren't in a position to boot out their most profitable members.

I'm sure we'll get a few "very special" shows in 2011, and, 'long about 2013 or so, we'll see another proposal to change DCI again.

After all, the "Center Group" proposal from 2006 that had the ideas of making II/III one division and so on (a proposal that had Dan Acheson as part of its "ad hoc") is a direct precursor to what we have before us now.

We'll see Gibbs, Fiedler, Hop and others want to tweak things again.

Hopefully the 'anything goes' division I have been suggesting for years!

[BRASSO]

Hey I agree with ya ...somewhat..All i keep saying is that either way Change WILL happen if this G7 goes through or not.

As for Blast I saw it twice, once by force because of students I had that were in it. It bored me to death..and No it wasn't , as another poster said marketed to the masses, it had horrible reviews in fact If i remember correctly it said it was like watching High School Band bang their way through a 90 min show. It lasted like it did for other reasons and marketed to bands ALOT.

I do wonder if given the oppurtunity whoever is close to the G7 status on your list above which one would jump ships in a heart beat and Join them.

Just a thought

You may have " been bored to death "... twice... with " BLAST ", but the award winning show " BLAST " was a commercial success beyond even the wildest dreams of their creators and designers. As for " horrible reviews ", that is not entirely correct at all. The reviews, like most shows, were varied. Some did not like it, some liked it a little... and some gushed about it, and loved it. I liked it a lot. But it doesn't matter what you or I think about BLAST, nor even a few reviewers. What matters is whether or not the show put people in the seats. And it did. All over the world. So it's not even a debatable thing as to whether or not it was a successful venture. It absolutely was a successful musical show venture.... and for many years now too.

As for your question " which of the non G-7 Corps might jump ship in a heartbeat " and join the other G-7 if an offer came...... I have no idea. Nor do I care. It doesn't matter to me WHICH Corps might go had they been offered. The power grab scheme concocted in secret behind closed doors to subdivide the World Class division is an unsavory and greedy exercise. I don't speculate on who MIGHT have considered it, when we have before us the names of those who ARE considering a devilish and indefensible group slotting system to be put permanently in place within the World Class Division of DCI.

Edited June 9, 2010 by BRASSO

[MikeD]

Yes there were more fans back then,,... the world was different also and that DOES have alot to do with it from membership to fans. It was everything you said But tell me other than a select # of corps how did hundreds benefit from the formation of DCI. All i know is i saw hundreds fold and YES it had to do with the NEW FORMAT called DCI.

No, it did not. The hundreds that died did so due to all sorts of societal and economic changes...not due to DCI. Most of them participated in their local circuits, a la Garden State here in NJ, and had very little to do with DCI.

[Geoff]

but, where will corps like Crown, Bluecoats, Phantom, ...er, anyone, be competitively by 2013 ? Top 7 by then could look alot different......theres change-a-comin' but it aint in the form of the G-7 breaking away.......

Blue Stars, Boston Crusaders, Madison Scouts, Troopers, Blue Knights, Glassmen, Colts, Spirit...are not gonna just fade away..and you know what ? Step back and think how rude, and disgusting these 7 ego-driven units think they are in a seperate class from the corps I just listed......the top 12 is the elite, and the 13 - 21 are the other world class corps.....how unbeleiveable that these 7 want to break away and risk the destruction of the activity and the demise of these other long time, succesful, storied units.....

G

For years, all we heard on RAMD and DCP was that if George H. and the rest of the directors were not happy with the current rules, then they should leave DCI and go form their own circuit. Now, that this could actually happen, you're upset.

Color me confused.