Want to Give a G7 Director a Piece of Your Mind?

[Jeff Ream]

Did you not read where I stated that Little League admission prices should be far lower than Major League admission prices? I, too, would not pay $150 to see a little league game.

Also, while AA baseball teams are called Minor League, they certainly are not Junior League. They use only adult professional level players, and the teams are normally directly affiliated with AAAA Major League teams; so AA teams are not a Junior League by any stretch. DCI claims to be a Junior Drum & Bugle Corps activity; pure and simple (ages 14 – 21). You referenced the Yankees and Orioles. Do you see the Yankees and Orioles limiting their players ages to 21 and playing ball against the American Legion Baseball Junior Teams; nope. The Yankees and Orioles are Major League; adult professionals. That is why that in my opinion if the G7 want to push the drum corps envelope farther into the realm of Major League, they need to create a real Major League just like MLB is to Junior Level baseball; and these same corps need to remove themselves from the status of being a DCI Junior Drum & Bugle Corps so that those who want to remain Junior can continue to prosper.

little league should be free.

also..i rarely see the Yankees and Orioles playing anyone UNDER 21.

but you going at this that all fans should cough up whatever for this great charity/youth organization. And I am telling you, if there is not enough entertainment, no they should not

[Stu]

little league should be free.

also..i rarely see the Yankees and Orioles playing anyone UNDER 21.

but you going at this that all fans should cough up whatever for this great charity/youth organization. And I am telling you, if there is not enough entertainment, no they should not

Little League should be free huh: Have you ever attended the Little League World Series?

If it is entertainment that you are after:

Hypothetical (so as not to slight any corps):

Junior Corps Contest (these corps are amateur performers ages 16 - 20, and the corps are in this division are there by choice)

Highest Cost of Ticket: $20

Featuring: Academy, Colts, Boston, Blue Stars, Teal Sound, Pioneer, Mandarins, Revolution

Major League Corps Contest: (these corps are professional performers 21 and over, and the corps are in this division are there by choice)

Highest Cost of Ticket: $40

Featuring: Scouts, Spirit, Glassmen, Blue Devils, Cadets, Blue Knights, SCV, Troopers

Question: Would you be entertained at both contests? Maybe not equally, but would you be entertained? If so, that is the Major League, Junior League type system I am advocating.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Stu

[DrillmanSop06]

There are many corps on the bubble. Dividing them based on ages (which shift from year to year) would be impossible. Would you have guessed that the 2007 Colts had one of the largest age-out classes in World Class drum corps that year? Exactly.

[Jeff Ream]

No i've not attended the LLWS. living an hour south, I know to avoid that place in August

Little League should be free huh: Have you ever attended the Little League World Series?

If it is entertainment that you are after:

Hypothetical (so as not to slight any corps):

Junior Corps Contest (these corps are amateur performers ages 16 - 20, and the corps are in this division are there by choice)

Highest Cost of Ticket: $20

Featuring: Academy, Colts, Boston, Blue Stars, Teal Sound, Pioneer, Mandarins, Revolution

Major League Corps Contest: (these corps are professional performers 21 and over, and the corps are in this division are there by choice)

Highest Cost of Ticket: $40

Featuring: Scouts, Spirit, Glassmen, Blue Devils, Cadets, Blue Knights, SCV, Troopers

Question: Would you be entertained at both contests? Maybe not equally, but would you be entertained? If so, that is the Major League, Junior League type system I am advocating.

answer....i dont want two seperate contests. I want to see everyone going head to head in either WC or OC. If you seperate it, you further kill an already slowly but surely dying activity

[Stu]

No i've not attended the LLWS. living an hour south, I know to avoid that place in August

answer....i dont want two seperate contests. I want to see everyone going head to head in either WC or OC. If you seperate it, you further kill an already slowly but surely dying activity

Ok, you just admited it yourself, WC and OC are already two seperate contest divisions. So, why not take the next step to enhance the quality progression of DCI. Make the OC the Junior League, where any corps wanting to abide by the youth age requirement status can join, and make the WC the professional Major League, with no upper age limit, where any corps can join that wants to move on toward the professional quality level. The funny thing here would be that the divisions would not look that much different than they do today; and the corps like BD, Cadets, would probaly have corps like Boston, Madison, Blue Stars, et al following them and they would be able to continue on a greater Major League progression path without much fan resistance. It seems to me to be a great compromise: DCI Junior League (amatuer sort of like the NCAA) with a Junior Champion crowend each year; and DCI Major League (professional sort of like the MLB) with a Major League Champion crowend each year. I think that would sell many tickets!

Edited June 15, 2010 by Stu

[garfield]

Ok, you just admited it yourself, WC and OC are already two seperate contest divisions. So, why not take the next step to enhance the quality progression of DCI. Make the OC the Junior League, where any corps wanting to abide by the youth age requirement status can join, and make the WC the professional Major League, with no upper age limit, where any corps can join that wants to move on toward the professional quality level. The funny thing here would be that the divisions would not look that much different than they do today; and the corps like BD, Cadets, would probaly have corps like Boston, Madison, Blue Stars, et al following them and they would be able to continue on a greater Major League progression path without much fan resistance. It seems to me to be a great compromise: DCI Junior League (amatuer sort of like the NCAA) with a Junior Champion crowend each year; and DCI Major League (professional sort of like the MLB) with a Major League Champion crowend each year. I think that would sell many tickets!

All right, Stu, I'm following you.

Two questions, then go on: What's the difference between this and the existing WC/OC system, except that the upper age limit is gone? Isn't it supposed that there is already a natural "age bridge" at which a younger player can move into the Major Leagues? Wouldn't the level of demand of the WC corps determine if the MM can make it?

Two: How would this affect DCA? Wouldn't this effectively reinforce that DCA is nothing but a bunch of old guys/gals who love to play their horns? I suppose the natural "age bridge" would come in to play, but I doubt that, if a 17 year old can't handle the drill stress of WC, a 30 year old, in general, would not.

And, all right, all you A-a-a-n-n-o-l-l-d wannabes, there are exceptions, of course. And I'd be tickled as hell to see a 35 year old out there kickin' with the young bucks. (But on the reverse, and I digress, would the drill designers be inclined to write a drill that most 35 year old bodies can handle safely?)

Please go on...

[Stu]

All right, Stu, I'm following you.

Two questions, then go on: What's the difference between this and the existing WC/OC system, except that the upper age limit is gone? Isn't it supposed that there is already a natural "age bridge" at which a younger player can move into the Major Leagues? Wouldn't the level of demand of the WC corps determine if the MM can make it?

Two: How would this affect DCA? Wouldn't this effectively reinforce that DCA is nothing but a bunch of old guys/gals who love to play their horns? I suppose the natural "age bridge" would come in to play, but I doubt that, if a 17 year old can't handle the drill stress of WC, a 30 year old, in general, would not.

And, all right, all you A-a-a-n-n-o-l-l-d wannabes, there are exceptions, of course. And I'd be tickled as hell to see a 35 year old out there kickin' with the young bucks. (But on the reverse, and I digress, would the drill designers be inclined to write a drill that most 35 year old bodies can handle safely?)

Please go on...

Remember, this is my utopia because I have not figured out how to fund this idea. I am fairly certain that it would still have to exist in the non-profit world because we do not have a large enough fan base to support this out in the for-profit world. But keep in mind, all of the major symphonies across the United States are non-profit and they somehow find a way to make their performers paid professionals while still taking international tours.

Drum corps, especially at the current top 12 WC level, is extremely athletic. So the upper age range would be that of other athletic entities like Football, Baseball, Basketball, and Hockey (late 30s to early 40s). By the way, make sure to see the supporting organizations in my following utopia which will answer an important question that you raised.

Imagine Joe Smith and Mary Johnson marching with a Junior League corps XYZ (so as to not tick off anyone) and their corps just became the JL National Champion; then as they age-out of JL, they want to continue on by making the athletic marching activity a career choice; Joe then signs a two year contract with the Major League corps the Madison Scouts, along with a one year extension option, and Mary does the same only with the Major League Corps the Boston Crusaders (notice I stayed away from the G7 because I think they are kind of being snakes right now). Of course we would have to have regulations like salary caps, and not necessarily a draft, but some sort of equitable way to sign up rookies to the Major League corps.

Both Leagues would compete within their respective leagues, both would contain paid staff, with of course the Major League staff paid somewhat more than the Junior League staff, and the corps in both Leagues would receive payments at shows, with ML corps paid based on merit of placement, and the JL corps receiving equal amounts of contingency payments to help alleviate tour costs. The only other differences would be the following:

a) JL would be regionally competitive for the first half and then the corps would make a straight shot to wherever the Final National Competition venue is located during the second half;

b) ML would be nationally touring the entire season having a major stop in a major city each weekend up to Finals.

c) ML would contain paid professional performers who are no younger than 21 or have at least one year JL experience and their JL corps has released them to pursue a ML contract; and the JL would be much like the way corps are structured right now, un-paid 16 - 20 year old amateurs.

This all would happen with the fusion of organizations DCI and DCA into DCF (Drum Corps Fusion) and there would be the DCFJ and DCFM divisions.

Lastly, each existing corps in both DCI and DCA would be allowed to choose what League they wanted to compete, and I am sure that many would choose the youth level for various economic and philosophical reasons; the only issue would be that some DCA corps might balk at the idea that they had to become a youth corps if they wanted to compete at the JL level (but hey the DCI corps would have to let go of their youth status to compete at the ML level, so it would be even Steven). And any new emerging corps would have to start at the JL level, but they would have the "guaranteed" yep "guaranteed" option to move into the ML once they had four years of running their corps in a row [in the Black]; or they could stay in the JL if they so chose. ML corps would run the danger of being bumped to the JL if they ran two years in a row in a row [in the Red] and JL corps would run the risk of getting bumped completely if the had two years in a row [in the Red]. Other things like helping keeping corps afloat, performance rules, JL multi-year winner having to bump up after x number of wins, etc... would be worked out during the DCI/DCA formation process.

Addendum: To accommodate the adults who would want to do this part time, a Senior Division can be implemented for Alumni Corps and any DCA corps that wishes to remain part time weekend oriented.

Well, there you go, my Utopia. Print it out and put it to good uses; either as fire starter, or toilet paper because there are way too many egos for this to happen.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Stu

[Bruckner8]

All right, Stu, I'm following you.

Two questions, then go on: What's the difference between this and the existing WC/OC system, except that the upper age limit is gone? Isn't it supposed that there is already a natural "age bridge" at which a younger player can move into the Major Leagues? Wouldn't the level of demand of the WC corps determine if the MM can make it?

Two: How would this affect DCA? Wouldn't this effectively reinforce that DCA is nothing but a bunch of old guys/gals who love to play their horns? I suppose the natural "age bridge" would come in to play, but I doubt that, if a 17 year old can't handle the drill stress of WC, a 30 year old, in general, would not.

And, all right, all you A-a-a-n-n-o-l-l-d wannabes, there are exceptions, of course. And I'd be tickled as hell to see a 35 year old out there kickin' with the young bucks. (But on the reverse, and I digress, would the drill designers be inclined to write a drill that most 35 year old bodies can handle safely?)

Please go on...

I've suggested removing the age requirement, and I was run out of town, lol.

But anyway, now that no one's paying attn, I'll explain the DCA solution again: DCA is "part time, all age" where DCI should be "full time, all-age."

That would be the only difference, IMO. If a 30-yr old can meet the full time commitment of full time drum corps, then it's WIN-WIN. And since DCA Finals is many weeks after DCI Finals, that 30 yr old can still do DCA if they wish.

With this setup, we don't even need the "junior corps" circuit, unless we make the max age very low, like 14, low enough to make it unlikely that anyone in the age group would even make it in DCFT or DCPT. Everyone's current Cadet Corps would still be viable. 15,16,17 yr olds that don't make their fav top DCFT corps will do what they do now: not march, go to some other DCFT, or go DCPT.

The only thing MAY suffer is DCA (DCPT). A few 21+ players from each corps will probably choose DCFT over DCPT, BUT I PREDICT THAT TO BE MINIMAL. Unfortunately, it will be the strongest, most robust players.

The full time aspect of current DCI is what makes it great. The part time aspect of current DCA, combined with mature players, makes it "almost great, but not quite."

Focus on the time commitment...not the age. That's all I'm trying to say.

Spare me all of:

But DCI is a youth activity! [bS, it's business. Entertainment Business]

But who wants a 35 yr old dragging down the corps? [then they shouldn't pass the audition, ya know?]

But those aged 22+ need to be getting on with their lives! [says who? very judgmental of you, imposing your "social morality" on others. It's a decision for corps and member.]

But DCI gets tax breaks for being a youth activity! [DCA is in the exact same tax situation. Some corporations may be less likely to give money, but 95%of the players will be <22 anyway! IOW, your sales pitch will change form "everyone's 22 or less" to "almost everyone is 22 or less."]

[Jeff Ream]

Ok, you just admited it yourself, WC and OC are already two seperate contest divisions. So, why not take the next step to enhance the quality progression of DCI. Make the OC the Junior League, where any corps wanting to abide by the youth age requirement status can join, and make the WC the professional Major League, with no upper age limit, where any corps can join that wants to move on toward the professional quality level. The funny thing here would be that the divisions would not look that much different than they do today; and the corps like BD, Cadets, would probaly have corps like Boston, Madison, Blue Stars, et al following them and they would be able to continue on a greater Major League progression path without much fan resistance. It seems to me to be a great compromise: DCI Junior League (amatuer sort of like the NCAA) with a Junior Champion crowend each year; and DCI Major League (professional sort of like the MLB) with a Major League Champion crowend each year. I think that would sell many tickets!

ah, but see I attend OC and WC shows when I have the chance....and sorry to say, but if you make the OC corps the junior league, you only reduce them to 3rd class citizenship that many already think they are.

ya see, you get rid of an age limit, and you cut into another part of drum corps I hold near and dear to my heart...DCA. and honestly, if you hurt DCA, you hurt drum corps, as because despite what many think, there is more to drum corps than DCI.

DCI needs to stay as it is dvision wise, but what it needs to...and several of the corps need to do their share too...is market themselves better.

With DCI's new business plan, even if they can get half of it rolling, DCI has taken a step away from where they have been sliding these past 15 years or so.

and honestly...your approach, to me, says it will only perpetuate the feelings out there now about DCI...WC good, OC sucks.

[Jeff Ream]

I've suggested removing the age requirement, and I was run out of town, lol.

But anyway, now that no one's paying attn, I'll explain the DCA solution again: DCA is "part time, all age" where DCI should be "full time, all-age."

That would be the only difference, IMO. If a 30-yr old can meet the full time commitment of full time drum corps, then it's WIN-WIN. And since DCA Finals is many weeks after DCI Finals, that 30 yr old can still do DCA if they wish.

With this setup, we don't even need the "junior corps" circuit, unless we make the max age very low, like 14, low enough to make it unlikely that anyone in the age group would even make it in DCFT or DCPT. Everyone's current Cadet Corps would still be viable. 15,16,17 yr olds that don't make their fav top DCFT corps will do what they do now: not march, go to some other DCFT, or go DCPT.

The only thing MAY suffer is DCA (DCPT). A few 21+ players from each corps will probably choose DCFT over DCPT, BUT I PREDICT THAT TO BE MINIMAL. Unfortunately, it will be the strongest, most robust players.

The full time aspect of current DCI is what makes it great. The part time aspect of current DCA, combined with mature players, makes it "almost great, but not quite."

Focus on the time commitment...not the age. That's all I'm trying to say.

Spare me all of:

But DCI is a youth activity! [bS, it's business. Entertainment Business]

But who wants a 35 yr old dragging down the corps? [then they shouldn't pass the audition, ya know?]

But those aged 22+ need to be getting on with their lives! [says who? very judgmental of you, imposing your "social morality" on others. It's a decision for corps and member.]

But DCI gets tax breaks for being a youth activity! [DCA is in the exact same tax situation. Some corporations may be less likely to give money, but 95%of the players will be <22 anyway! IOW, your sales pitch will change form "everyone's 22 or less" to "almost everyone is 22 or less."]

you also open up a ton of cans of worms by allowing 30 years olds and 17 year olds living together day after day. DCA has had some issues, and that's just weekends, and I know it has scared some parents away from allowing their kids to participate.

I don't see where opening up the age limit makes anything better...if anything, it keeps more kids out of the corps. DCI's mission statement is for youth, and yes, they are stretching it going to 22. Anything more than that, and honestly...it could hurt DCI more than help, especially in marketing