A problem With Holes

[euponitone]

Agreed.

And I agree with splitting up the circuit, back into regionals though, not into the 'Music Major Corps' vs Others. Part of the thrill I felt was knowing that I was competing against ppl who probably had a better classical training than me, and sometimes giving them a scare.

Back tracking a bit. We have two current examples on the DCP forum of what we're talking about. Holes that is.

We have Colts looking for a contra and Cadets looking for an undisclosed number of brass players [72 ]

One can safely assume that Colts did not have as many Contra auditionees as Cadets.

You can probably bet that a brass player who is eligible to march and has experience would probably go for Cadets.

"Drum corps experience is preferred, and they need to be physically fit to march, says Gino Cipriani, brass caption head. Cipriani said The Cadets had put out an earlier appeal to good response, but more musicians are needed. “We were fortunate to find a vet or two and some young folks with experience to fill the last availabilities, but injuries are part of the game and it’s always frustrating, especially when the injuries come quickly.” - Cadet website.

Now how do you console the corps that doesnt have enough members with the one that keeps hurting em! Its seems DCI is becoming the realm of haves and have nots.

I don't mean to bash Cadets in any respect.

Lol....the cadets show is relatively easy this year (straight from the mouth of a contra player that is still marching), so maybe those people should stop being wusses and getting hurt. Yes, that is a joke, and yes, I count myself as lucky that the worst injuries i sustained in corps were blisters and some itchiness in a bad spot.

[Stu]

... To fix that, you need to deal with the folks that go to one camp, get cut, and sit on their couches for the rest of the summer. Figure out what's in their head, how to keep them in the activity, and maybe things will get better

Here we go; this is why I created this thread. How do we fix "this" problem?!?!?

[euponitone]

We are a bit off subject here, but you cannot have, by definition, layers of "adults" performing in a youth activity; either 21 year olds are defiend as a youth, or they are defined as adults who should not be involved as a performer in a youth activity. So, in your opinion stated above, 21 year olds are adults; and since you contend that they are adults, how then can they be justified as being able to perform in a youth activity?

Like I said, im not sure how you justify it without breaking things up. I love what corps like pioneer do by educating people about drum corps. I also love it when a corps that taught people to play and march with no experience and younger kids beats one of the more established corps with adults (in the strictest sense, 18-22 year olds). If we want that to continue, and if we want dci to continue in its current form, there's really no choice but to accept the mixed signals. Is it odd that marching music's major league has 14 year olds competing with 22 year olds? yup. We had a 14 year old in 2005 in the guard, as did the corps in 2000 (bari line), but that is the exeption rather than the rule. Personally, I am fine with the activity as is, but if people see a problem, I am all ears with how to fix it....just maybe not on this thread though

[euponitone]

Here we go; this is why I created this thread. How do we fix "this" problem?!?!?

Dunno - I tried saying "stop sucking and go march", but that didnt work. What's your plan????

[corpsband]

Besides, I dont think the one or two hangers on to the top corps would really make a huge difference in the groups that are struggling just to get to 120 or 125 members in world class anyway. To fix that, you need to deal with the folks that go to one camp, get cut, and sit on their couches for the rest of the summer. Figure out what's in their head, how to keep them in the activity, and maybe things will get better

This. Alternates are not the problem Despite the vivid imaginations of some on DCP (carrying 2 or 3 kids for every spot 'til May? ) the large pool of kids are the one's who don't go past the first couple of camps. I think most corps have their brass and perc lines set by Jan camp -- if not completely then almost completely. Guard is a different animal as most corps seem to have their "final" audition camps after Dayton.

The larger numbers are kids who get cut (or cut themselves) after those early camps -- how can you divert *those* kids to another corps with openings? An idea I've always thought would work would be for *DCI* to organize several giant audition camps. Corps who want to participate can do so; before the camp starts each corps lists the number of spots in each section that are up for grabs; corps are limited to offering those spots only Kids don't know in advance what corps might want to 'sign' them. You come in for the weekend and might walk out with a contract for a corps. At the end of the weekend kids get offer sheets and chance to sit down with each corps representatives.

This eliminates the stress kids might feel at having to travel to several corps camps (worrying they will only be told "NO" again). It allows upper corps to refer kids to other corps without having to create an explicit referral system (and branding corps "X" the feeder corps for corps "Y"). The weekend is still paid for by an audition fee (which covers DCI's costs for facilities and staffing the weekend with clinicians). Clinicians rank kids on a set of standard audition materials.

There's probably a lot of details to work out but I think it could work.

[euponitone]

This. Alternates are not the problem Despite the vivid imaginations of some on DCP (carrying 2 or 3 kids for every spot 'til May? ) the large pool of kids are the one's who don't go past the first couple of camps. I think most corps have their brass and perc lines set by Jan camp -- if not completely then almost completely. Guard is a different animal as most corps seem to have their "final" audition camps after Dayton.

The larger numbers are kids who get cut (or cut themselves) after those early camps -- how can you divert *those* kids to another corps with openings? An idea I've always thought would work would be for *DCI* to organize several giant audition camps. Corps who want to participate can do so; before the camp starts each corps lists the number of spots in each section that are up for grabs; corps are limited to offering those spots only Kids don't know in advance what corps might want to 'sign' them. You come in for the weekend and might walk out with a contract for a corps. At the end of the weekend kids get offer sheets and chance to sit down with each corps representatives.

This eliminates the stress kids might feel at having to travel to several corps camps (worrying they will only be told "NO" again). It allows upper corps to refer kids to other corps without having to create an explicit referral system (and branding corps "X" the feeder corps for corps "Y"). The weekend is still paid for by an audition fee (which covers DCI's costs for facilities and staffing the weekend with clinicians). Clinicians rank kids on a set of standard audition materials.

There's probably a lot of details to work out but I think it could work.

Interesting...a small nightmare for funding and logistics, but at least its a constructive idea, which makes it better than 99% of what goes on here. I agree that the 'branding' was always a problem, especially when xmen were in yea. Hell, for a while cadets got a lot of members from crown...that sure changed

[Stu]

Dunno - I tried saying "stop sucking and go march", but that didnt work. What's your plan????

My idea is not practical because nobody would go for it (ego would get in the way); and that is why I wanted to see if anyone else had any practical ideas on how to get more youth involved with more corps. But here we go with my non practical idea:

DCI would be a youth only activity (we can and have discussed my idea about a real Marching Major League with professional adults, but I do not want to get caught up in that aspect in this thread). Anyway, within the DCI youth network, have a working pool of connected staff from various corps who help each other in the promotion of what is best for the kids. During the first round of auditions, any person could choose any corps that they wanted to audition for; and those corps could contract anyone who they feel would be the best fit in their corps. It gives all of the youth equal opportunity to audition for their dream corps.

At the end of that audition process, say March, the staff pool would get together with the non contracted audition personnel and really promote the idea that it is far better to be involved in the activity that to set at home or in the stands. I mean imagine if the Caption Head of one of the top tier corps would show those who are in group 2 or three of their audition classification rankings that they have deep profound respect for a different corps. And that they would actually contact Caption Heads from other corps to see if a spot was available in those corps. And each year the process would start anew so that all have equal opportunity to audition for their dream corps.

Would that not help dispel the selfish notion that I want to be a Cadet or nothing at all? Would that not help fill the holes of all corps? But we have to get rid of both staff egos and the egos of those who only want to march with a winning corps or no corps at all. And since that will not happen, we need to figure out a more practical way to fill those holes with youth.

[Jeff Ream]

Jeff, I do believe we already had this discussion in a previous thread (and I think that we disagreed) on what defines Major League; and whether or not there should be a professional aspect to drum corps. I have no problems trying to figure out a paying Major League Corps system to help alleviate the power trip aspect of some of the corps. But I digress, and would like to stay on the topic of how to fill holes in all of the junior corps.

then you cant use analogies that do not apply to the discussion at hand....and comparing DCI to an activity/sport where participants get drafted/paid is not a good..hell it's not even a horrible analogy. It's a waste of discussion

[Jeff Ream]

That is the point; they do not "keep" them around with official contracts; but they do continue to invite them back each camp until the kids decide for themselves to stay at home instead of having the corps staff promote the idea of going to audition for other corps. This is self serving for the corps; but how does it look out for the best interest of the kid?

it is a fine line. however, you can't fault the corps for charging, because fedding the kids isn't cheap. Plus, as we've seen, some of those kids have been rewarded by sticking around. I know a few myself.

it's the kid's choice, especially if they are over 18. If the corps is 100% upfront and the kid stays, then it's on the kid

[Stu]

This. Alternates are not the problem Despite the vivid imaginations of some on DCP (carrying 2 or 3 kids for every spot 'til May? ) the large pool of kids are the one's who don't go past the first couple of camps. I think most corps have their brass and perc lines set by Jan camp -- if not completely then almost completely. Guard is a different animal as most corps seem to have their "final" audition camps after Dayton.

The larger numbers are kids who get cut (or cut themselves) after those early camps -- how can you divert *those* kids to another corps with openings? An idea I've always thought would work would be for *DCI* to organize several giant audition camps. Corps who want to participate can do so; before the camp starts each corps lists the number of spots in each section that are up for grabs; corps are limited to offering those spots only Kids don't know in advance what corps might want to 'sign' them. You come in for the weekend and might walk out with a contract for a corps. At the end of the weekend kids get offer sheets and chance to sit down with each corps representatives.

This eliminates the stress kids might feel at having to travel to several corps camps (worrying they will only be told "NO" again). It allows upper corps to refer kids to other corps without having to create an explicit referral system (and branding corps "X" the feeder corps for corps "Y"). The weekend is still paid for by an audition fee (which covers DCI's costs for facilities and staffing the weekend with clinicians). Clinicians rank kids on a set of standard audition materials.

There's probably a lot of details to work out but I think it could work.

Good and interesting start to an idea; this does eliminate many logistical and financial issues for those auditioning. Question: At a mass audition with many corps involved, how would you resolve three corps wanting to give the same person a contract to march?