A problem With Holes

[euponitone]

I agree with the ranking system, by total pts and total who show up, but stringing kids along until may is near abusive in my perspective. You deprive them of hope, of all the money they've spent on travel and camps, and most damaging of time. Time that could have been spent in a show somewhere else.

I suppose you could look at it that way, or you could actually listen to the people that explain what the process is really like. Your choice... (and no, I cant speak for what crown does obviously)

[Stu]

... so its not like their trying to string them along and trick them out of their money...

So why do top tier corps corps string kids along with two or three per spot until May or even June if it is not for money or to see who give up the spot first? That might be what is best for the corps; But would it not be better for the kid to be let go in February to try out for a different corps?

Edited June 22, 2010 by Stu

[Stu]

I suppose you could look at it that way, or you could actually listen to the people that explain what the process is really like. Your choice... (and no, I cant speak for what crown does obviously)

No offense, but you are sounding just like Hopkins with that line of reasoning. For example: You can look at the G7 as elite or you can actually listen to Hop explain what the process is really like. Your choice, right?

Edited June 22, 2010 by Stu

[Jeff Ream]

the Rangers pay. the cadets don't

What can be done, if anything, to change that mentality? I mean can you imagine someone wanting to play for the Yankees who gets drafted by the Rangers instead going, I would rather stay at home than play baseball?

[SF2K4]

Here's my thing: If you've been with the corps going into April and especially May there's no reason to be cut at that point. Yes, I know hundreds of people are trying out for roughly 150 spots. Yes, I realize a lot of them are good and it's hard to cut them down to that number. However, as mentioned, someone who gets cut from Phantom or Cadets or whomever in May isn't likely to go join up with another corps right before the season. They just don't. Why not make a rule that says a corps has to have it's 150 members plus alternates (a hard number like, say, 10?) after 3 auditions camps that are run successively starting with the first camp. Obviously is some people get hurt along the way they can add more to keep that ~160 total number. However, that will stop the process of having 175-180 “members” into April/May when a lot of them will just be cut and could've been cut back in January or February and could've joined up with another corps who needs the members. Now maybe this isn't a problem at all and I'm just blowing smoke and if that's the case feel free to burn me. It was just a thought.

[euponitone]

For the record, I've stayed completely out of the G7 debates, because I dont particularly agree with it either way, or know much about it... The way you worded your response was basically a hobson's choice - you can either pick this horribly wrong option, or listen to me explain what is right. I admitting to not knowing what goes on in other corps, so the possibility exists that you have a point (re. crown), but I DO know what happened in my corps, and "depriving them of hope", and being "abusive" was not what happened.

Now then, onto the other discussion - Isn't this thread about why the top corps have holes in their show? I think you were the OP, but someone seemed shocked that these corps wouldn't have people lined up to fill those spots. First, people complain that the top corps dont have alternates, and now, people complain that it's cruel to string people along that may never get on the field. Which is it? And for the record, and as I have already said once, those people that are number 22 of 20, or whatever it is, are told EXACTLY what their standing is, and they make the decision about what to do from there. Nobody makes them come back, but they do anyway. I dont know of any corps that has multiple alternates for EVERY spot (sure as heck aint the cadets), but as for carrying one or two alternates for a given section, that seems to me to be an individual decision between the corps and the member. Perhaps they pay a reduced fee, get to march basics, play with the hornline, and get a shot at marching. If they dont that year, i'm sure they have a leg up on the competition for next year. Would that be a choice I would make....no, probably not, but it would be my CHOICE (oh sheesh, now I do sound like hop)

[dbc03]

Here's my thing: If you've been with the corps going into April and especially May there's no reason to be cut at that point. Yes, I know hundreds of people are trying out for roughly 150 spots. Yes, I realize a lot of them are good and it's hard to cut them down to that number. However, as mentioned, someone who gets cut from Phantom or Cadets or whomever in May isn't likely to go join up with another corps right before the season. They just don't. Why not make a rule that says a corps has to have it's 150 members plus alternates (a hard number like, say, 10?) after 3 auditions camps that are run successively starting with the first camp. Obviously is some people get hurt along the way they can add more to keep that ~160 total number. However, that will stop the process of having 175-180 “members” into April/May when a lot of them will just be cut and could've been cut back in January or February and could've joined up with another corps who needs the members. Now maybe this isn't a problem at all and I'm just blowing smoke and if that's the case feel free to burn me. It was just a thought.

Because there is absolutely no way to know which 150 kids are going to stick it out through the season in January.

You take the top 150 kids in January and then you've got maybe 100 kids left in time for moveins

[Stu]

the Rangers pay. the cadets don't

Jeff, I do believe we already had this discussion in a previous thread (and I think that we disagreed) on what defines Major League; and whether or not there should be a professional aspect to drum corps. I have no problems trying to figure out a paying Major League Corps system to help alleviate the power trip aspect of some of the corps. But I digress, and would like to stay on the topic of how to fill holes in all of the junior corps.

[audiodb]

To me, and this is just my opinion, the education one would receive in the rigors of tour with an excellent educational staff of a different corps would be as much if not more beneficial than just attending camps at a top tier corps. This would apply to both group 2 and group 3. Unless, of course, it is your belief that the educational staff of those non top tier corps are not good educators.

I agree that a full season with some other world-class corps would have considerable educational value that cannot be provided in winter/spring camps. But that doesn't make the marketing of the winter/spring camp experience to students as "education" wrong. And any corps can do that....no law limits this approach to top corps only.

[euponitone]

Here's my thing: If you've been with the corps going into April and especially May there's no reason to be cut at that point. Yes, I know hundreds of people are trying out for roughly 150 spots. Yes, I realize a lot of them are good and it's hard to cut them down to that number. However, as mentioned, someone who gets cut from Phantom or Cadets or whomever in May isn't likely to go join up with another corps right before the season. They just don't. Why not make a rule that says a corps has to have it's 150 members plus alternates (a hard number like, say, 10?) after 3 auditions camps that are run successively starting with the first camp. Obviously is some people get hurt along the way they can add more to keep that ~160 total number. However, that will stop the process of having 175-180 “members” into April/May when a lot of them will just be cut and could've been cut back in January or February and could've joined up with another corps who needs the members. Now maybe this isn't a problem at all and I'm just blowing smoke and if that's the case feel free to burn me. It was just a thought.

You may have a point, but that's never been a problem where I marched. The drumline is set fairly early, the colorguard is usually set before the WGI season starts, and the hornline is mostly set....but if anything, is actually low on numbers going into may. Your idea might have more merit for corps like phantom and crown that get huge audition numbers, although I often wonder how exaggerated those are...