Madison Scouts 2010 Cymbal Discussion

[Stu]

Many of you are not understanding. I am not angry about being cut. My dismay is the lack of respect of what we were told.

Could your concern also be a feeling of disrespect by a) being informed by the staff that there would be "no cymbals on the field at all" combined with b) the staff then turning around and having the guard seemingly treat cymbals more as thirty second visual "props" than treating the cymbals as real percussion "instruments"?

If that is the case, I would tend to agree with your feelings on the subject. While it is true that cymbals are both visual and percussive, cymbal players as a whole have had a hard enough time over the years gaining respect from the marching community that they are actually musicians. Moving them into the realm of guard props would only propagate that issue.

In the 1999 Scouts show, a Soprano Player and a Rifle Guard Member traded their respective items for a few seconds and it created a rather humorous, as well as, a cool moment in the show. For those of you who are coming down on the OP of this thread think about this: Could you imagine if the design staff that year had eliminated the entire soprano line for the entire show, told the soprano players that they could audition for other spots, and then put those soprano horns in the hands of the guard for thirty seconds as props during the show? How would it make you horn players feel?

[Bill L.]

So loyalty is a one way street? Seriously?

He's not "family" anymore. His family told him his services weren't wanted or needed any longer.

He's still a welcome member of this highly dysfunctional DCP family, so why not post here?

The first 2 lines of your statement are not true. We were loyal to them, we offerd them another choice. To be honest with you they could have march in any other section, even if they sucked at it . That being said, who walked out on who ?

ggab704 ,

I am truly sorry that you feel this way.

Bill Leslie

[BigBadMadMan]

So loyalty is a one way street? Seriously?

He's not "family" anymore. His family told him his services weren't wanted or needed any longer.

He's still a welcome member of this highly dysfunctional DCP family, so why not post here?

Fine. But you open yourself up to the backlash while attempting to lick your wounds. Life ain't fair, man.

And, as he said, he still considers them family...I certainly don't get on here and gripe about my parents, sisters, extended relatives, etc. That would be highly inappropriate of me.

[vferrera]

I can understand how someone would feel it's disrespectful to have guard members "playing" cymbals. As a horn player, I got the same feeling when Garfield's guard picked up horns way back when. It's sort of like saying, "hey, look, it's so easy anyone can do it."

I just don't get the part about being lied to. Seems petty.

Once a scout, always a scout, but that doesn't entitle you to make design decisions. If the corps decides one year that they are going to switch from brass to vuvuzelas, then you either switch to vuvuzela or march elsewhere.

[IntheMood]

to me, drum corps without cymbals is like pizza without pepperoni or chips without salsa. They add a lot, but many corps feel they can live without them.

When the stopped marching tymps, tymp players switched to bass drum. When they stopped marching french horns, horn players switched to mello. You have to be a little flexible.

Social media is here there is no need to run from it. Hit the issue head-on. All I am hearing is he-said, she-said. What is the truth?

We all talk about Drum Corps teaching us life lessons, this issue is a great example of just that. I know nothing about what happened behind closed doors. So, let's assume the Scouts did offer these young men an option to stay with the Corps, just not on cymbals. If this happened the OP should feel lucky. I personally know 300 people who were told their jobs were no longer needed. They could only wish to be offered another position in the org. None was given.

Having worked in a union shop the contract stated, if your position was eliminated for whatever reason you could not back fill. Working in a non-union shop, if your position was eliminated the company could do what they wanted. If they wanted to use another person to do your job for a little bit they could. Not trying to be mean to the OP. It's just life as I know it.

To the OP, I feel your pain. One day over time you may be able to put that pain aside and celebrate the fact that your are part of the Madison Scouts brotherhood. No one can ever take that away from you.

Dean

[rut-roh]

More pride than it took to play lead in '96? Or more pride than as a soloist in '94?

When the corps decides to cut the entire soprano/trumpet line, get back to me with this nonsense. The pride he's speaking about comes from knowingly being a part of what is largely considered a dying breed in DCI. And something the Scouts have historically, with very few exceptions, been known for in this area. It's easy for you to say get over it, but you're not in his shoes. If you were told there would be no cymbal line and then you go and see **color guard members** picking up cymbals in the show, if you were to tell me you'd be happy with that, then I'd think you weren't being entirely honest. He's more than entitled to feel the way he does. His feelings are entirely legitimate and valid. Nobody's mind is going to be changed here. The corps made its decision. He accepts it but just doesn't agree with how it was handled. He still loves the Scouts, and I'm sure he will recover and move on from this. Perhaps some here can try to be more understanding of what he's going through. When you're at that age, you only get so many chances at this DCI thing. And when you're a cymbal player who loves that craft, your opportunities are fewer and further between.

What bugs me the most about it is that when I heard Thom Hannum was going to be writing the book, it never occurred to me that there WOULDN'T be a cymbal line. More than just about any other arranger, he actually knows how to write for that voice and incorporate it into the musical ensemble in a way that really enhances the overall musical product. I'm disappointed in this turn of events.

So, ggab704, I'm with you man. I totally understand your feelings about this, and I wish it could have been handled differently.

[BigBadMadMan]

So loyalty is a one way street? Seriously?

He's not "family" anymore. His family told him his services weren't wanted or needed any longer.

He's still a welcome member of this highly dysfunctional DCP family, so why not post here?

Also:

So respect is a one-way street? Seriously?

So this member thinks he was disrespected, but doesn't show respect by coming on here to gripe about it, say he was disrespected, and insist he was lied to?

Hmmmm...I see a flaw in your argument.

[dmfootworks]

It's generally understood that cymbal positions are tenuous in modern drum corps. One wanting to pursue such a position should have in mind that such positions may be relatively few, and expendable. The biggest concern I have in this affair is that the Scouts have been admitting or failing to produce members that have integrity. To take this personal issue to a public forum is illustrative of a certain lack of class that I have never associated with the Madison corps. So either the corps is failing to send alumni into society with decent character, or a few members here and there fail to live up to the character I know the corps has historically instilled in members. I tend to think it's the latter. So there were four members of the cymbal line and we now know that the particularly disgruntled one is teaching high school. If I'm reviewing that person's resume, why would I would want to hire someone or give them a role when I can see how ill-prepared they are for how both drum corps and life in general often work? Was this marching member guaranteed a position until age-out? I don't know if the Scouts require their members to audition each year, but what if this person lost his position to someone else. How disappointing that this person would want to come in here and spoil everyone else's excitement about the young drum corps season and to exhibit such a lack of class to a corps that had provided him such a wonderful opportunity.

[BigBadMadMan]

When the corps decides to cut the entire soprano/trumpet line, get back to me with this nonsense. The pride he's speaking about comes from knowingly being a part of what is largely considered a dying breed in DCI. And something the Scouts have historically, with very few exceptions, been known for in this area. It's easy for you to say get over it, but you're not in his shoes. If you were told there would be no cymbal line and then you go and see **color guard members** picking up cymbals in the show, if you were to tell me you'd be happy with that, then I'd think you weren't being entirely honest. He's more than entitled to feel the way he does. His feelings are entirely legitimate and valid. Nobody's mind is going to be changed here. The corps made its decision. He accepts it but just doesn't agree with how it was handled. He still loves the Scouts, and I'm sure he will recover and move on from this. Perhaps some here can try to be more understanding of what he's going through. When you're at that age, you only get so many chances at this DCI thing. And when you're a cymbal player who loves that craft, your opportunities are fewer and further between.

What bugs me the most about it is that when I heard Thom Hannum was going to be writing the book, it never occurred to me that there WOULDN'T be a cymbal line. More than just about any other arranger, he actually knows how to write for that voice and incorporate it into the musical ensemble in a way that really enhances the overall musical product. I'm disappointed in this turn of events.

So, ggab704, I'm with you man. I totally understand your feelings about this, and I wish it could have been handled differently.

This is so blown out of proportion, it's mind-boggling. I'm sorry...is this the first time this has happened in drum corps? I must have been sleeping under a rock for the last many years. How DARE the Blue Devils cut their cymbal line!! Oh...wait...I mean, how DARE Phantom cut their...wait...how DARE Cadets cut--

[Matt_S]

The biggest concern I have in this affair is that the Scouts have been admitting or failing to produce members that have integrity. To take this personal issue to a public forum is illustrative of a certain lack of class that I have never associated with the Madison corps. So either the corps is failing to send alumni into society with decent character, or a few members here and there fail to live up to the character I know the corps has historically instilled in members. I tend to think it's the latter. So there were four members of the cymbal line and we now know that the particularly disgruntled one is teaching high school. If I'm reviewing that person's resume, why would I would want to hire someone or give them a role when I can see how ill-prepared they are for how both drum corps and life in general often work? Was this marching member guaranteed a position until age-out? I don't know if the Scouts require their members to audition each year, but what if this person lost his position to someone else. How disappointing that this person would want to come in here and spoil everyone else's excitement about the young drum corps season and to exhibit such a lack of class to a corps that had provided him such a wonderful opportunity.

Apparently the Madison Scouts are also teaching that when the corps is attacked, fans and alumni should attack the messenger.