Pioneer 2010

[J.C.]

Again I ask. Didn't you once have a relationship with Pioneer? If so, how did that relationship end and is that why you feel the way you do?

Ed,

Don't read too much into Howdy's comments. The man clearly knows little about the mission, goals, tradition and culture of the Pioneer, or the wonderful life changing experience that they provide their members. When measured against their own mission and goals, the Pioneer are a great success, year in and year out.

...And this year, they ROCK!!!

Edited August 5, 2010 by J.C.

[MisterA]

In my opinion, Pioneer is a winning corps. Even if they don't end up ahead of another corps this year, they have put a fantastic product on the field. I don't think Pioneer is worried about placing 1st in World Class either. I believe from what I have seen, they are doing things the right way. They take alot of talented kids who may not have any experience, and give them a corps to perform with. They probably train more students than any other corps in World Class. Now even with those kind of new member numbers, they put a great show on the field year after year. Hopefully at some point, they will have a much higher retention rate, but as it is, they spend a season or 2 training members, and alot of them take that experience to another corps. When you look at the total picture, not only is Pioneer a great corps, but their training is helping 20 other corps to better with experienced members coming from Pioneer.

True winners show sportsmanship, even when they aren't the champion, and to me, Pioneer is all of this and more. Pioneer, while alot of people may not remember this, have placed in the top 17 on many occasions. They have placed as high as 16th. They have beaten corps like Troopers, Blue Stars, Mandarins, and many others over the years. They beat DI corps when they were DII. Many other corps have moved up from DII/III over the years, but Pioneer is one of the few that is still around(along with Carolina Crown and Mandarins). It is a tough economy out there, and so many corps have folded. Pioneer has managed to stay afloat. And they have done it without the huge souvie sales that alot of the top corps have.

These kids in Pioneer work just as hard as the other corps, they practice long hours in the heat, travel as much as the other corps, and put everything they have out on the field every night, just like every other corps. It's just a shame that 3:30 next Thursday, there will be less fans in the audience to enjoy them than the higher placing corps later on in the evening.

Pioneer could probably be a little more competitive. They could probably lower the number of marching members, stop training so many new kids, and probably improve their placement. But they don't. It seems like Pioneer is very happy helping out kids who have the longing to march drum corps, and they help make it their dream. And they help fulfill some members dreams of getting enough experience to march with a higher placing corps, even if it isn't in the best interest of Pioneer. That to me sounds like a real winning corps, even if that doesn't show up anywhere on the judges sheets.

Go Pioneer!!! I am looking forward to seeing you BRING IT on Thursday the 12th.

[IntheMood]

It has been an honor and very fun for me to watch Pioneer on FN grow over the 2010 season. The last show that I seen was Atl. The communication between the Corps and the announcer was spot on. Finally. LOL You know I have been talking about that all season.

The improvement of this Corps over this season has been very noticeable to me. I know that many Alum must be very proud of this years show. People talk about Pioneer finishing last. That is nothing compared with the Cubs and their 100 year plus World series drought and they still have a very strong and passionate following. This year you have made me a fan of the Pioneer Drum and Bugle Corps. To me there are three shows that are very fan friendly they are the Cavies, Scouts and Pioneer. You do not have to finish in the top 12 to have a very nice show the fans can get into. Pioneer your are living proof of that. You can bet your last dollar I will not be in the lot when you all perform at Indy in a handful of days. If people are in the lot while you all or on the field they will be missing a very nice show that is being performed by alot of kids who have never picked up a flag or instrument in their lives. Thank you Pioneer for taking a chance on these kids who are just like me when I was a young cat off the streets. I will be buying a suvie and donating money because of what you do with the kids off the street.

Dean

[Pioneersop98]

Winning means different things to different people. It could mean winning DCI and beating every other corps, it could mean being your personal best and maxing out your show, etc.

I would much rather see Pioneer be in a financially good place, teaching kids and giving them an opportunity to march drum corps, than see them fold for whatever reason. I have had members of Top 12 corps talk crap to my face because I marched in Pioneer, and always hear last place, blah, blah, blah. I used to defend Pioneer to those people, but you know what, it really doesn't matter. My Pioneer experience was awesome, I learned a lot, made great friends for life, and performed my butt off to audiences and got standing 'O's. Giving the crowd all I could give was the best thing and having people come up to me afterwards and tell me how much they enjoyed it was probably the best part about marching. Pioneer doesn't need to finish in the Top 12 to be a "winner". They are winners everyday by simply taking the field and performing. Drum corps is about more than your placement or score. And, the kids at Pioneer know that. Some people (like the guys that used to talk crap) will never understand that.

Can't wait to see Pioneer next week!

[Ed from Kansas]

It has been an honor and very fun for me to watch Pioneer on FN grow over the 2010 season. The last show that I seen was Atl. The communication between the Corps and the announcer was spot on. Finally. LOL You know I have been talking about that all season.

The improvement of this Corps over this season has been very noticeable to me. I know that many Alum must be very proud of this years show. People talk about Pioneer finishing last. That is nothing compared with the Cubs and their 100 year plus World series drought and they still have a very strong and passionate following. This year you have made me a fan of the Pioneer Drum and Bugle Corps. To me there are three shows that are very fan friendly they are the Cavies, Scouts and Pioneer. You do not have to finish in the top 12 to have a very nice show the fans can get into. Pioneer your are living proof of that. You can bet your last dollar I will not be in the lot when you all perform at Indy in a handful of days. If people are in the lot while you all or on the field they will be missing a very nice show that is being performed by alot of kids who have never picked up a flag or instrument in their lives. Thank you Pioneer for taking a chance on these kids who are just like me when I was a young cat off the streets. I will be buying a suvie and donating money because of what you do with the kids off the street.

Dean

And this is why we parents love to have out kids march with Pioneer. Glad to have a new Pioneer fan. Thank you.

[Ed from Kansas]

Ed,

Don't read too much into Howdy's comments. The man clearly knows little about the mission, goals, tradition and culture of the Pioneer, or the wonderful life changing experience that they provide their members. When measured against their own mission and goals, the Pioneer are a great success, year in and year out.

...And this year, they ROCK!!!

Not reading a thing into it. I know the situation. I was calling BS on his comments.

[Staxrocks93]

"Wow! You are so smart! Another Einstein maybe! Never realized I would come across so many intelligent people on these forums. I feel so fortunate......get your facts straight, talk to someone who cares and maybe volunteer once in a while.......it will make you a better person......! Kids read these forums for what it is worth and I am sure they know they are going to encournter ignorant people! No one is blaming the judges for last place........ maybe their sharing their opinion of what they think the scores should be! For crying out loud......Pioneer is a teaching corps.......get a grip and find something else to do with your time! Whats wrong in believing in something? I soppose you never believed in Santa either! "

Re:

Who do you blame for Pioneer being in last place? I know why Pioneer is in last place. I know how Pio can get out of last place and into the top 12. The question remains as to if Roman knows how. Roman does a great job with how well he runs Pio in many ways, but ask yourself this question, are Roman's leadership decissions keeping Pio in last place? To me it looks like Roman does as well of a job positioning Pio competitively as Roman does maintaining those Pio buses. I think making Donny program coordinator is a first good step, but for Pio to move up, Roman will have to make a lot more tough choices.

Winning involves being wiser than the drumcorps whom you compete against. Ask yourself, does that describe Pioneer?

I am not here to throw any stones at Pioneer, I am trying to help Pioneer. I can tell you from first hand experience that I have all of my facts straight. I know what I am talking about. Do not talk to me about volunteering for Pioneer. You need to get your facts straight.

As for the scores, Pios scores are at or close to where they should be. Placement is more important than any number.

"Pioneer is a teaching corps"

Re:

Well, ask yourself, just who is teaching them? Those who have a history of winning DCI ?

How many of Pios staff marched in a top 12 DCI WC drumcorps?

Pioneer also happenes to be a COMPETING drum and bugle corps. All drum corps teach students.

Believing that Pioneer can have a winning corps in DCI WC by continuing to operate just like they have in the past is just like believing in Santa Clause.

If you know so much, why don't you ask Roman to hire you??? Hmmmmmmm.....and does it really matter and hurt people that Pioneer is in "last" place? They have their personal goals......they are obtaining them and yes, several of the staff that work with these fine kids have marched in a top 12 corps. Not sure where you get your information. Yes, Pioneer is a competing Corps and is as sound as the "Big Dogs". Bus problems, come on these problems have been issues for years, and not only for Pioneer. For God sake my husband marched Cavaliers in the 80's and he has told us stories about having to jump off the bus several times during tour and having to "push" the bus off the highway at 2:00 a.m. I suppose you drive only new cars! It happens to the best of them.......Whoever said Pioneer is going to be a "winning" corps in DCI? Winning isn't 1st place.......I don't care to know your definition of "winning" and I sure hope you don't have a kid marching either. Sorry to hear that Santa didn't exist in your childhood! Please.....post your nonsense on some other thread. We don't care to read it!

[Howdy]

If you know so much, why don't you ask Roman to hire you??? Hmmmmmmm.....and does it really matter and hurt people that Pioneer is in "last" place? They have their personal goals......they are obtaining them and yes, several of the staff that work with these fine kids have marched in a top 12 corps. Not sure where you get your information. Yes, Pioneer is a competing Corps and is as sound as the "Big Dogs". Bus problems, come on these problems have been issues for years, and not only for Pioneer. For God sake my husband marched Cavaliers in the 80's and he has told us stories about having to jump off the bus several times during tour and having to "push" the bus off the highway at 2:00 a.m. I suppose you drive only new cars! It happens to the best of them.......Whoever said Pioneer is going to be a "winning" corps in DCI? Winning isn't 1st place.......I don't care to know your definition of "winning" and I sure hope you don't have a kid marching either. Sorry to hear that Santa didn't exist in your childhood! Please.....post your nonsense on some other thread. We don't care to read it!

The issue is not if Roman hires me or not. The issue is, is Roman making the right decissions in order for Pioneer to win DCI WC.

Roman had a chance to hire someone who could help Pioneer far more than I ever could, imho, and Roman turned him down.

Now, that person is with a top 12 drum and bugle corps that I predict will win DCI within the next three year. Last year that drumcorps was not even in the top 12. This year they are. How did they get into the top 12? Leadership

Does it harm Pioneer to end up in last place every year? Yes it does.

Many of Roman's bus issues happen, in my opinion, because in the off season Roman does not maintain his buses as well as he should.

"Whoever said Pioneer is going to be a "winning" corps in DCI? Winning isn't 1st place..."

Re:

I say winning IS being in first place. I say that Pioneer should attempt to win DCI WC.

Winning in DC WC is finishing in first place.

Michael

Mt. Verd, TN

Edited August 5, 2010 by Howdy

[Howdy]

<snip?

Pioneer doesn't need to finish in the Top 12 to be a "winner". They are winners everyday by simply taking the field and performing.

<snip>

Re:

DCI is a COMPETITION. To be the winner you have to win.

This attitude as shown here by Pioneersop98 in my opinion is what is harming Pioneer. Although I agree that taking the field and performing in DCI WC is honorable, it is not the same thing as winning DCI WC. It is not the same thing as wearing a ring. To be the winner in DCI you actually have to win.

Whether or not we like it, kids today respect the corps that are attempting to win DCI. They buy these corps t shirts the most, and they tend to cheer on the top winning corps the most. In my opinion if Pioneer's leadership would foster its leadership into aiming to win DCI, and not just to participate, or to be a "teaching corps" Pio would get more respect.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Howdy

[Howdy]

I'm going against everything I have ever learned. "Don't respond to ignorance"! But, I'm going to forgot about that and defend a Corps and people that I am sure I know, have spent considerably more time with and understand better than you. No one cares about your opinion......Bus issues are bus issues......Pioneer has not missed or been penalized for being late to any show this year, unlike other corps.....hmmmm. I wonder if this top 12 person who Roman didn't hire could teach any better, kids from Mexico who don't speak English, never held a horn or a flag and never marched a day in their lives, better than the instructors have this year?! I could go on, but it seems Howdy (or Michael) that you know it all. Drum Corps is a better activity because of people like you! I wonder.......have you ever marched? Have you ever had a kid march? If either of these statements are facts, you wouldn't write the crap you do.

Do I think this person and the staff that he brings to the table can teach kids better than Pio's current staff? Yes I do, but this person can teach kids better than almost everyone in this activity.

Yes I marched, yes, I competed against Pioneer, and I taught and volunteered at Pioneer, yes I have brought kids to march, etc, that is not the issue. No need to make this personal.

Again, the issue is that EVERYTHING rises or falls on leadership.

The issue is, is Pio making the right leadership decissions to win DCI WC? Or, if you will, to get better scores in DCI WC.

I know of another DCI corps that I was involved with who, on paper have all the right staff, many with advanced degrees in their field. Yet they do not score well in DCI WC.

Why?

In my opinion because their corps leadership does not make the right choices. If you want to win DCI, or get great scores in DCI, you need to make the right choices.

This is NOT COPYING the shows from great drum corps. It is instead, producing something new, something so original and creative that the great corps sit back and admire you, and can only wish that that is what they would have come up with first, what they wish that they were doing this year.

Get it?

Edited August 5, 2010 by Howdy