Incomplete Shows

[BozzlyB]

Many drum corps do more than just compete in the summer, no?

I'm sure people would start #####ing that Corps X played Mary Had A Little Lamb for their encore or in a parade because that's all they had time to learn.

Look... I get why people see this as unfair, but adding penalties or whatnot wil just force corps to add in "filler".

Then so be it. That is that particular corps problem.

Ahh screw it. In fact, there really should be no time penalties at all right? Because, maybe someone has a 13 minute show that is just amazing, and forcing them into a timeframe will just force the corps to cut out some great portions of their show, right? Do you see the immensely slippery slope you're walking down?

You get why it is unfair, but evidently fair takes a backseat to a drum corps having a timeline to follow (that they are aware of over a half a year in advance).

Edited July 6, 2010 by BozzlyB

[chaddyt]

Then so be it. That is that particular corps problem.

Ahh screw it. In fact, there really should be no time penalties at all right? Because, maybe someone has a 13 minute show that is just amazing, and forcing them into a timeframe will just force the corps to cut out some great portions of their show, right? Do you see the immensly slippery slope you're walking down?

You get why it is unfair, but evidently fair takes a backseat to a drum corps having a timline to follow (that they are aware of over a half a year in advance).

I'm actually down with enforcing timelines. Just don't be surprised when corps start adding in irrelevant content to avoid getting penalized.

[BozzlyB]

I'm actually down with enforcing timelines. Just don't be surprised when corps start adding in irrelevant content to avoid getting penalized.

I don't think that would happen because scores would negatively reflect "filler" as opposed to actual show that is part of the design from the beginning and makes sense as part of the show. It can hardly be said that the corps that came out with full length shows in June did so by using "filler".

[Perry S]

I didn't read everything, but I think that the minimum and maximum length of shows rules should be enforced all season and not just starting with the first regional. If I remember correctly the show length requirement is a show at least 10 minutes and no longer than 11.5 minutes in length. If a show falls short or runs over time in june then a penalty should be assessed. The before penalty score would still be based on how well a corps did with what they performed just like now and then the penalty for under or overtime would be assessed and the score adjusted accordingly to the rules.

Is it so much to ask that the actual rules of this activity be enforced all season?

I totally agree. Actually I believe it's 9 1/2 minutes minimum to 11 minutes maximum. I don't mind that shows evolve and get tweaked and corrected throughout the season and I DO NOT advocate financial penalties. I do however think that scores should fully reflect what is on the field and I would not presume to insult the Judges and say that "How would they know a completed show or not". Puhleeze

Edited July 6, 2010 by Perry S

[byline]

I'm actually down with enforcing timelines. Just don't be surprised when corps start adding in irrelevant content to avoid getting penalized.

I agree.

[rut-roh]

Why add filler? Get to a certain part of the show where you no longer feel comfortable marching recently learned drill or whatever, stand still in a certain drill set and then play the rest of the show in that set. I've seen corps do it before many times. No timing penalties, and the audience gets a COMPLETE musical performance. As far as visual scores being affected, yeah, they might be to an extent, based on the quality of the rest of the visual program that was already presented. Nine and a half minutes of decent visual followed by a standstill might still be better than ten and a half minutes of mediocre to not so good visual.

[byline]

Why add filler? Get to a certain part of the show where you no longer feel comfortable marching recently learned drill or whatever, stand still in a certain drill set and then play the rest of the show in that set. I've seen corps do it before many times. No timing penalties, and the audience gets a COMPLETE musical performance. As far as visual scores being affected, yeah, they might be to an extent, based on the quality of the rest of the visual program that was already presented. Nine and a half minutes of decent visual followed by a standstill might still be better than ten and a half minutes of mediocre to not so good visual.

See, I think people would be just as unhappy with a standstill -- as they were back in my day -- as they are if the closer is not performed at all. I think that when people say they want a "finished product" -- or else the corps should be penalized, either financially or score-wise -- they're saying they want music and drill right to the finish. Otherwise, they feel they are being gypped.

[dbc03]

Can you direct us to these "bad analogies" and point out the flawed logic in them?

Here is the one that I was specifically referring to, but there are plenty of other examples floating around.

Maybe corps need to start the season with a little easier show and BUILD. No complete show, no complete paycheck. I told the boss the other day that the job I was working on was really difficult and that I wouldn't be able to do it for 8 hours a day until 4 weeks after I started it and then asked for full pay immediatly........ya, it didn't fly with him either.

It just makes absolutely no sense. A better work analogy would be "I was assigned a project that is due in 3 months, but my boss wanted to get regular demos and updates on how it was going. During the first demo 4 weeks in he was ###### because the project wasn't finished" but even that is an oversimplification of a complex issue

[chaddyt]

I don't think that would happen because scores would negatively reflect "filler" as opposed to actual show that is part of the design from the beginning and makes sense as part of the show. It can hardly be said that the corps that came out with full length shows in June did so by using "filler".

The filler wouldn't have to necessarily be irrelevant to the show. Could be some watered down version of the music and/or drill. Either way, according to you, the corps would be looking at a lower score regardless.

And if those are the rules, so be it.

But I'm still fuzzy on how we account for any particular corps having issues or circumstances beyond their control inhibiting their ability to "finish" their show.

[rut-roh]

See, I think people would be just as unhappy with a standstill -- as they were back in my day -- as they are if the closer is not performed at all. I think that when people say they want a "finished product" -- or else the corps should be penalized, either financially or score-wise -- they're saying they want music and drill right to the finish. Otherwise, they feel they are being gypped.

No need for penalties, financial or otherwise, as there is no edict in the rules that states a show must have x amount of time marching drill. Nor should there be. If the totality of the audio/visual presentation lacks in quality in comparison to other corps who may be presenting more, then that should be reflected in the score, but don't automatically expect it to be a massive point differential. Like SCV losing to Troopers or something because they stood still for 30 seconds at the end of their show due to incomplete drill.