Incomplete Shows

[byline]

By this logic why would a corps bother doing a full show at all. Why not just put 5 minutes of blazing amazing show on the field, it will be that much less to clean so it can be that much harder, and you can come out and kick the but of corps that took the time to put a complete product (and save the "it's not complete till finals" crap for someone else you know what I'm talking about) on the field and has more dirt because of it. Why are people so opposed to accountability in this activity?

I'm not. But, by the same token, I'm no fan of a corps wasting its time putting on a fake ending just to satisfy some arbitrary "full show" mandate.

[chaddyt]

I'm sorry, let me clarify. I don't really care that much about seeing a shorter show. What I care about is competition being fair, or at least as fair as possible. If you fail to see how it is currently unfair for a corps doing 7-8 minutes of show to be judged on the same criteria, with no penalty, against a corps doing a 10 1/2 minute show, then this debate is really quite pointless.

Well then do we then take it a step further and say all corps competing must have at least X number of drill sets (but no more than Y), play X number of notes, have X number of park and blows, with Y number of 16th note runs?

Just so everyone can be judged on the same criteria?

[oldskl3rings]

Announcer: “Are the judges ready?! Is the corps ready?!”

DM: “Well…we’re two thirds ready.”

DC is in serious trouble! Current revenue sources can not keep up with expenses. The G7 proposal is just an attempt to rectify this shortfall. The best way to increase revenue is to increase the fan base. More fans equal more money! DCI should be doing everything in its power to increase the number of fans. Opening a season with incomplete performances is certainly not going to accomplish that. I wasn’t going to post again, but in following this thread there are many suggestions to stop this practice. Others take the attitude that whatever a corps does is OK. Than there are those of you that take the position if you don’t like it don’t go. That’s a great way to increase the fan base! In reality this thread should not be necessary. Those who run this activity should see the writing on the wall and rectify the problem.

[stuh]

One would never go to see a concert of Beethoven's 9th symphony where the fourth movement wasn't played because it wasn't ready.

I'd have to take issue with this, I think some of these classical composers have a few works around that are classified as unfinished and people pay good money to go here them.

Do Laker fans get a discount when Kobe sits out a game?

I imagine the next new thread will be someone wanting their money back when a soloist cracks a note or two.

[corpsband]

Announcer: “Are the judges ready?! Is the corps ready?!”

DM: “Well…we’re two thirds ready.”

DC is in serious trouble! Current revenue sources can not keep up with expenses. The G7 proposal is just an attempt to rectify this shortfall. The best way to increase revenue is to increase the fan base. More fans equal more money! DCI should be doing everything in its power to increase the number of fans. Opening a season with incomplete performances is certainly not going to accomplish that. I wasn’t going to post again, but in following this thread there are many suggestions to stop this practice. Others take the attitude that whatever a corps does is OK. Than there are those of you that take the position if you don’t like it don’t go. That’s a great way to increase the fan base! In reality this thread should not be necessary. Those who run this activity should see the writing on the wall and rectify the problem.

Dear lord....coming out with an incomplete show is all part of the grand conspiracy?

BTW there's a forum for the G7 topics.

[perc2100]

The point is about a mile to your left. I don't care about "getting mine" I care about fairness in competition. Have a great discussion everyone.

My question, then:

exactly what corps, and at which competition, benefitted so far this season from having an incomplete show? I would like to know who you think beat a corps they shouldn't have beaten because their show was incomplete by several minutes, and perhaps it would benefit your argument if you can correlate that with a "and when the corps added their closer they dropped several points and dropped in placement 'back to normal'"

[perc2100]

(bobchilds @ Jul 4 2010, 12:47 PM)

One would never go to see a concert of Beethoven's 9th symphony where the fourth movement wasn't played because it wasn't ready.

I'd have to take issue with this, I think some of these classical composers have a few works around that are classified as unfinished and people pay good money to go here them.

Do Laker fans get a discount when Kobe sits out a game?

I imagine the next new thread will be someone wanting their money back when a soloist cracks a note or two.

GREAT idea! Forgot limiting it to just solo cracks, though. If ANY corps does not score a perfect 100, we should all demand money back since the designers failed in their job to deliver us perfect products. To help implement that, corps can start fining members for 'ticks' on the field: this could also help motivate the members to not fail in their job of performing perfectly all of the time.

I think you're on to something

[soccerguy315]

You assume the demand is spread equally all along the timeline. That's certainly not the case. Anyway I can envision 9.5 minutes of furious well executed drill beating 11 minutes of sitting around on chairs (just kidding but you get my point).

As for #2 I think it's less confusing for everyone to put a number on a performance without the asterisk. The number pre-penalty *is* accurate.

we can agree to disagree

[perc2100]

Dear lord....coming out with an incomplete show is all part of the grand conspiracy?

BTW there's a forum for the G7 topics.

I'm with you: is it August yet (August is the new July which was the new June a few days ago)

[shostahoosier]

I've read through this entire thread and it's mindnumbing!

There are so many good points on both sides of the argument.

I'll say upfront that I'm part of the "should be finished" camp (so those of you on the other side of the isle can read the rest of this with animosity).

I think that Train Wreck (the OP) has a very valid point and even if you disagree with his proposal, you have to admit that asking someone to pay for a partial product (unless its knowingly admitted upfront) is quite rude. You say its only a minute or two of the show, but that can be anywhere from 10-20%. I would never knowingly pay 100% for 80% of any performance (a concert, a musical, a movie, even a cab ride) unless it were discounted. If you want to thats fine, there's nothing wrong with that, it's just a personal stance of mine, and there's nothing wrong with that either. I'll let the hard core theater nutts enjoy their soft-openings (please, no dirty jokes).

"So you're willing to punish those hard-working members and cash-strapped non-profits because you feel like you're being cheated?" you say? Sorry, please spare me the "but what about the kids?!" emotional argument whenever someone financially shows their disapproval for the activity. The corps have the option of not putting a finished product on the field and I have the option of not paying for it. DCI's primary focus should be the kids, but if it's 0% about the fans, name me a profitable business that is 0% about the customer.

I think that Perc2001 (I dont know if that is the exact name) made a very logical post on why shows are not complete by the beginning of the season and I think it should saved to be referred to later when this ugly question pops up again.

In my opinion, though, the over-simplified reason for corps not having a show finished by the time the season starts is because they can get away with it. There's no punishment or incentive for them to be completed. The judges apparently dont care and the audiences arent voicing their opinions in the best way they can (their wallets) so why should corps feel obligated to pump out a "finished" show when they can instead comfortably learn most of the show and release the last of it whenever. I think this is what annoys people because some corps DO complete their shows by the start of the season, and they're not being rewarded for it in the judging sheets. So why should those corps even bother? It's a slippery slope.

"Well my favorite corps isnt finished with their show yet because they're learning a harder show"....*YAWN*...then dont make the show so "hard"...maybe DCI corps are OVER-PROGRAMMING. In that vein though, I'll say I guess it comes down to those who want "higer, faster, louder" at the expense of the early part of the season because they have the luxury of following a corps all summer, or those (as in the vast majority) who will probably only get to see one show in a summer season and just want to be entertained.

...I'm almost beginning to agree with Bruckner (in another thread).."it just doesnt $%@#@ matter"

And please stop saying that an incomplete show is the same as a dirty show or one that will have re-writes. We all know the shows will get better and that the shows will be tweaked...I personally just want to see a show that doesnt abruptly end a minute or so after the ballad.