The Minneapolis Mash-Up

[supersop]

A few things:

1) it is typically EXTREMELY difficult to secure a major stadium for a Saturday, let alone for a Saturday AND Sunday. I would imagine that stadium rental alone would make that plan cost prohibitive. When you factor in the "we have to pay for the stadium on Sunday even if there is a large chance we won't use," that plan makes no sense from a business standpoint. While it obviously sucks for everyone involved when a Regional show is rained out, it doesn't happen nearly as often to warrant a plan so drastic that DCI is paying double the expenses on the off chance there's a needed rain check type show. Not only do you have to have the stadium, you also need staff committing to an event that might not happen (good luck finding a full event staff willing to commit to working a show with no guarantee), concessions paid for (like last Saturday, if a show goes on for several hours before cancelation, there are substantial concessions already sold so show sponsors would have to have nearly double the inventory just in case), etc.

2) I would bet that the average fan wouldn't mind "donating" the ticket cost for a non-profit event. Factor in the fact that more that nearly 2/3'rds of the corps still performed, and you realize that the audience still saw a show with 14 corps performing. That's more than the average show, so the audience still got a decent show. Plus, it seems like often the corps try to at least give the audience a stand still if weather permits (i.e. if it rains enough to leave the field in dangerous shape but stops raining early enough, corps will at least do an stand-still for the crowd).

3) I wonder how many show sponsors would take on the logistics of "you have to plan for a Sunday show just in case." That's a TON of responsibility for an event that probably won't be necessarily. That plan might even scare off potential sponsors, as well as stretching DCI resources thin at a time when they're already super thin.

Point number 1 can be covered by the insurance policy .. including losses of ticket revenue and facility costs. All that would have to take place is securing a site that will hold the Sunday just in case. In the dead of summer .... I can't see that being a HUGE problem.

Point 2, also covered by the insurance policy if a prorated refund were offered to the customers who only got 2/3 of what they paid for ... or if you consider the G7 proposal ... 1/4 of what they paid for.

Point 3, if it were a planned off day mandated by DCI ....... the logistics are a moot point because the show sponsor would be looking for 2-3 days of housing anyway ... and that is guaranteed paid housing. I don't think my assertions are outrageous in any way. BTW .. Regionals are RARELY a sponsored show .. they are a DCI show, funded and executed by DCI even if they have partners with skin in the game. If it's not a dome ...... this should be part of the plan. I can't fathom why they haven't done so already. Regular shows ...... I get it. Leave it the way it is or at least require the insurance policy to cover losses. it's worth the small additional cost to operate the show to secure that insurance policy.

[violet]

Point number 1 can be covered by the insurance policy .. including losses of ticket revenue and facility costs. All that would have to take place is securing a site that will hold the Sunday just in case. In the dead of summer .... I can't see that being a HUGE problem.

Point 2, also covered by the insurance policy if a prorated refund were offered to the customers who only got 2/3 of what they paid for ... or if you consider the G7 proposal ... 1/4 of what they paid for.

Point 3, if it were a planned off day mandated by DCI ....... the logistics are a moot point because the show sponsor would be looking for 2-3 days of housing anyway ... and that is guaranteed paid housing. I don't think my assertions are outrageous in any way. BTW .. Regionals are RARELY a sponsored show .. they are a DCI show, funded and executed by DCI even if they have partners with skin in the game. If it's not a dome ...... this should be part of the plan. I can't fathom why they haven't done so already. Regular shows ...... I get it. Leave it the way it is or at least require the insurance policy to cover losses. it's worth the small additional cost to operate the show to secure that insurance policy.

The insurance policy might still be pretty cost prohibitive. That could be a significant factor. I know the idea of insurance has been thrown around a lot, but I think the actual pricing on such a policy, particularly where it applies to the venue and staffing for a top-tier college or pro stadium (versus a high school venue) might be a lot steeper than anyone is really factoring in.

[supersop]

The insurance policy might still be pretty cost prohibitive. That could be a significant factor. I know the idea of insurance has been thrown around a lot, but I think the actual pricing on such a policy, particularly where it applies to the venue and staffing for a top-tier college or pro stadium (versus a high school venue) might be a lot steeper than anyone is really factoring in.

And how much will it cost in the years to come if the people who get burnt due to a storm never come back again? Even if it's a percentage of the people, how can you not justify a marginal cost insurance policy to guarantee your returns over the long term?

Happy Customers Makes Repeat Customers and New Customers. After all, happy customers are more apt to talk about a product and generate new business by word of mouth.

[BRASSO]

And how much will it cost in the years to come if the people who get burnt due to a storm never come back again? Even if it's a percentage of the people, how can you not justify a marginal cost insurance policy to guarantee your returns over the long term?

Happy Customers Makes Repeat Customers and New Customers. After all, happy customers are more apt to talk about a product and generate new business by word of mouth.

Happy customers that become repeat customers are less expensive to a business (or enterprise) as well.

If you lose a customer, there is the heavy cost ( and time ) involved to go out and find a new customer to replace the customer that left. And if all you're doing is replacing cistomers, but not growing customers, than eventually your business fails. That's because operating costs are not fixed. They naturally rise each year . And if all you're doing is standing still, then you're really just standing still in quicksand.

Edited July 21, 2010 by BRASSO

[paul]

Point number 1 can be covered by the insurance policy .. including losses of ticket revenue and facility costs. All that would have to take place is securing a site that will hold the Sunday just in case. In the dead of summer .... I can't see that being a HUGE problem.

Point 2, also covered by the insurance policy if a prorated refund were offered to the customers who only got 2/3 of what they paid for ... or if you consider the G7 proposal ... 1/4 of what they paid for.

Point 3, if it were a planned off day mandated by DCI ....... the logistics are a moot point because the show sponsor would be looking for 2-3 days of housing anyway ... and that is guaranteed paid housing. I don't think my assertions are outrageous in any way. BTW .. Regionals are RARELY a sponsored show .. they are a DCI show, funded and executed by DCI even if they have partners with skin in the game. If it's not a dome ...... this should be part of the plan. I can't fathom why they haven't done so already. Regular shows ...... I get it. Leave it the way it is or at least require the insurance policy to cover losses. it's worth the small additional cost to operate the show to secure that insurance policy.

So how much would an insurance policy cost? Would you be willing to add the additional cost to the ticket price?

[jwscv87]

And how much will it cost in the years to come if the people who get burnt due to a storm never come back again? Even if it's a percentage of the people, how can you not justify a marginal cost insurance policy to guarantee your returns over the long term?

Happy Customers Makes Repeat Customers and New Customers. After all, happy customers are more apt to talk about a product and generate new business by word of mouth.

It is really hard to say, isn't it? The idea of insurance is terrific, but I am in the same camp as the poster you quoted. Unless we know, specifically, the cost of such a policy then it is impossible to judge IMO.

I suppose that it is entirely possible that show promoters were unaware of, or ignored the insurance option. I would think that it is more likely that they are well aware of the option (or lack thereof) and made a conscious decision based upon facts that we do not have. We don't know (at least I don't) how marginal the cost really is.

I would be curious to know if they could switch the insurance obligation and allow the ticket purchaser to buy individual insurance (similar to the choice to purchase travel insurance or car rental, etc). If possible, that option makes a ton of sense to me. If I am driving to and from a show (no hotel, no airfare) then I am likely to decline an insurance option and simply consider the cost of my ticket a "donation" if I get burned by weather. However, if I am travelling to the contest and it is an expensive regional I might pay extra for some coverage.

[jjeffeory]

A few things:

1) it is typically EXTREMELY difficult to secure a major stadium for a Saturday, let alone for a Saturday AND Sunday. I would imagine that stadium rental alone would make that plan cost prohibitive. When you factor in the "we have to pay for the stadium on Sunday even if there is a large chance we won't use," that plan makes no sense from a business standpoint. While it obviously sucks for everyone involved when a Regional show is rained out, it doesn't happen nearly as often to warrant a plan so drastic that DCI is paying double the expenses on the off chance there's a needed rain check type show. Not only do you have to have the stadium, you also need staff committing to an event that might not happen (good luck finding a full event staff willing to commit to working a show with no guarantee), concessions paid for (like last Saturday, if a show goes on for several hours before cancelation, there are substantial concessions already sold so show sponsors would have to have nearly double the inventory just in case), etc.

2) I would bet that the average fan wouldn't mind "donating" the ticket cost for a non-profit event. Factor in the fact that more that nearly 2/3'rds of the corps still performed, and you realize that the audience still saw a show with 14 corps performing. That's more than the average show, so the audience still got a decent show. Plus, it seems like often the corps try to at least give the audience a stand still if weather permits (i.e. if it rains enough to leave the field in dangerous shape but stops raining early enough, corps will at least do an stand-still for the crowd).

3) I wonder how many show sponsors would take on the logistics of "you have to plan for a Sunday show just in case." That's a TON of responsibility for an event that probably won't be necessarily. That plan might even scare off potential sponsors, as well as stretching DCI resources thin at a time when they're already super thin.

Just curious.... I don't see this as a problem in the summer. What major stadiums have you seen in use in the summer on a Saturday and a Sunday?

It seems like there are enough to go around without a problem and with the right negotiations it could make good business sense for a stadium owner to throw in Sunday too as they don't typically have to major events from one day to another. Usually it's one main event each week if there are ANY events.

In the late summer ( August) and into the fall, it's a different story with college and pro football, college groups wanting to use a stadium, or something like that.

Just something that I thought about a bit in the past.

[supersop]

So how much would an insurance policy cost? Would you be willing to add the additional cost to the ticket price?

I'm sure it wouldn't cost more than the Lobster buffet DCI throws for their parties and directors meetings. I'll be happy to make a call or research it more, but I can tell you looked into it a few years back after the monsoon at DCA... was that 07?

Per Event Limits

$3,000,000 - Aggregate (total limit for the duration of the event)

$1,000,000 - Each occurrence

$1,000,000 - Products / Completed Operations

$1,000,000 - Personal Injury & Advertising Injury

$100,000 - Premises Rented To You

$1,000,000 SPECIAL EVENT LIABILITY FOR $175.00

Premises Owner, Co-Promoters & Sponsors named as additional insured at no extra cost !

Extra cost items at $25 per selected:

Participant Legal Liability Coverage

Liquor Legal Liability

Third Party Property Damage

Participant & Spectator Medical Benefit Coverage

Event Cancellation

Rain & Weather Insurance

Rented Equipment, Props, Sets & Wardrobe

Flood & Earthquake

Automobile

Boiler & Machinery

Directors and Officers

Umbrella Policy

It'd say a $200-300 policy is chump change for a regional ... or even ANY show on tour.

[violet]

Cancellation insurance (that refunds event fees and pays for the other costs) is going to be an entirely different case than being able to guarantee the event for the next day in the same location. I think the two concepts are getting jumbled together.

If you have the second day reserved just in case, it's going to have a variety of additional fixed costs. Stadium staffing can't be done on 12 hours notice. I don't believe these kinds of costs would end up being a piece of an insurance policy so much as they would become an unwieldy piece of event planning fixed costs.

[supersop]

Cancellation insurance (that refunds event fees and pays for the other costs) is going to be an entirely different case than being able to guarantee the event for the next day in the same location. I think the two concepts are getting jumbled together.

If you have the second day reserved just in case, it's going to have a variety of additional fixed costs. Stadium staffing can't be done on 12 hours notice. I don't believe these kinds of costs would end up being a piece of an insurance policy so much as they would become an unwieldy piece of event planning fixed costs.

And DCI has the funds in the coffers to cover the 2nd day in the contract and have the money ready should they need it. It would then be later reimbursed to them by the insurance company for the cancellation of the original event. Even if you insured both days, you're going to get a cancellation out of one of them (granted that's gaming the insurance, but I'm really only suggesting that portion of the argument for Outdoor Regional's ONLY). How many of those do we have? 1-2 per year including finals I think.