93Bluecoat Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 THIS ^THIS ^ THIS ^ The OP can bring up however many anecdotal examples of "people around him" "shaking their heads" or saying "is it over?" that he wants, but I'm sure any number of people could come up with examples to the contrary. In the beginning, almost everyone who went to a drum corps show loved drum corps and was a fan. Now, the activity has changed, so you have people that liked the older style better combined with people that like the newer style. This didn't exist "way back when" because there was no "older style". You can say you liked it better back then, but that doesn't mean you're right, or more justified in your opinion. Especially when the argument is based on "trust me, I saw these people act this way" and "I didn't feel good about it, but back then I used to". Really? Because I've mentioned that I've observed this at many shows across the country for many years now. The Dublin show Wednesday night just happened to be the worst I've seen it. I've been seeing and hearing these same things for about 5 years now. What the heck are you talking about in that second paragraph? LMAO....I marched in the 90s and if you think there wasn't a difference between the 60s, 70s, and 80s then you haven't got a clue! There have been differences in every decade of drum corps and each has evolved into wonderful additions to the genre. Resistence at first (I played in the first horn line to use 3 valve bugles in '90) was always there, however after seeing how the activity evolved, it was quickly accepted. What I keep saying is that the fans have NOT accepted this current incarnation of the activity. Its going on a decade and the shows have gotten further and further from being accepted. I don't see a more passionate and growing fan base.....again, this is a consumerism issue. DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tez Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 I guess this is actually what I've been looking for from stalwart DCI apologists....an admission that you're attending a "concert" rather than a drum corps competition. An admission that we are no longer witnessing drum corps as an idiom but a concert. I have NEVER thought of a drum corps show as a concert nor would I ever! Its absurd! Why? Because if I want to hear Asphalt Cocktail in "concert" I'll go watch the Michigan State University wind symphony perform it with Kevin Sedatole conducting! If I want to hear Farandole performed, I'll pick the next time the Cincinnati Symphony is performing it and check it out. Lance mentioned that some of my comments were "sad" earlier. How sad is it that now drum corps has become a passive activity for the audience? I've been moved in concerts before. When MSU premiered "Asphalt Cocktail" last spring, I lept to my feet and took part in a 5 minute standing ovation. Its was incredible....I will openly admit that isn't the norm, just a great rare performance full of emotion. I see so little of that being communicated to the audience from the corps? Why? Poor design philosophy. DW It's funny..... I no I'm in the minority here, but sometimes I wish drum corps were more of a passive activity for the audience. So many wonderful effects have been ruined over the years by over-enthusiastic audience reactions (in my opinion). Don't get me wrong, sometimes I feel a huge audience reaction adds a lot to the show, but when Mr. mellophone soloist plays a backfield solo consisting of a sparse 5 notes, and 50 people clap very loudly covering up a full ensemble decrescendo, I really think it ruins the moment. (For an up-to-date example of what I am referring to, listen for something like this in the first minute of SCV's show this year.) Also.... personally, if I am up, out of my seat screaming for my favorite corps.... I am missing things going on on the field. I guess I am just a horrible multi-tasker, but that is just not me. At points in shows that I find most exciting, I am usually staring at the field in disbelief, emotionally teary-eyed, but silent. Not saying everyone should be like me.... but maybe there are more out there that are like me...... and I guarantee we are just as moved and excited about the shows as anyone else..... we just show it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93Bluecoat Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 I voted years ago. I have not attended a show since 2004.Why bother? The shows are just WGI shows expanded and with live music. At best,they are BOA shows done very well. If I want to see excellence in those realms, I can attend their shows. The kids marching now are better trained and better prepared to produce their product than ever, but I no longer care about the product. As I tell my students: "Art started in the heart, not the head." When crowds no longer react from emotion, but rather from intellectual appreciation, I feel we have lost something special. Yes yes yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 True, my point was that so few seem to have a genuine appreciation for the actual evolution of the activity. We only think what is current (or fresh in our memory) is the best thing out there. There have been some legendary performances in the '00s, but I can honestly say I appreciated them on the same level as other great shows from the '90s, 80s, '70s and 60s. When someone makes an argument that some of their most memorable performances for them have been recent ones, I like to know if they actually have a basis for comparison. So many that are DCI apologists don't seem to have a base of knowledge prior to mid or late 90s.Just want to know what they compare their opinions to. DW You use the phrase 'for them'...all a person has to go on are the performances they have seen, so if they only go back to the late 90's, that's their frame of reference. They do have a "basis for comparison", though it may only span 15 years. BTW....Why do you call those that appreciate modern shows 'apologists'? That has such a negative connotation. People like what they like. For me, I love the performance level and entertainment level of modern corps. I have also said that one of my personal favorite shows ever was the 1969 Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights (my favorite corps through the 60's). IMO you have to look at the various shows within their timeframe to fairly evaluate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93Bluecoat Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 You are imbuing the word "concert" with your own connotations, not mine. I attend rock "concerts" monthly, and they are anything but passive. This past season I've seen the ISO perform Mahler 2, I've seen Yuja Wang perform Rach 3, and I saw the debut of the ISO's new organ for Saint-Saens' Organ Symphony. Each performance ended with a five minute standing ovation, the very same which you believe to be so rare. These were all thrilling performances, made no less so by the fact that I had sat silent throughout.PS Referring to myself and others as "apologists" is condescending, at best. It demeans your position by the fact that you are communicating a lack of respect for mine. Apologist, supporter, whatever you want to be called....Bill, Tom, whatever...I'm sorry if its coming off as condescending, but I suppose its frustrating when no one wants to acknowledge that the drum corps experience is no longer geared towards the fan or their consumer. DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93Bluecoat Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 As I stated earlier, I've followed the activity since '75 so when I say I have enjoyed the shows of the past 10 years just as much as any other decade I am able to make a direct comparison.Everything is subjective! I've seen "Asphalt Cocktail" performed by a great college band and I loved it, but I know a few others in attendance were simply not fans of this particular Mackey work. I've also seen "Asphalt Cocktail" performed by the Bluecoats and thought it is was AWESOME. (And I dare say I think John Mackey would love what they've done with it.) Obviously some, like you, are not as enthusiastic. I do hope you are sharing in the joy the Bluecoats are feeling tonight. You talked earlier about the great feelings you had with the corps in '92. Believe me, those kids are feeling like that at this very moment. Actually I like it a lot, but there's more they can do with it...I want to see them really kick the ending. They are leaving out some of the best parts of that piece and it could work incredibly at the end of that show! They almost have it.... DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Apologist, supporter, whatever you want to be called....Bill, Tom, whatever...I'm sorry if its coming off as condescending, but I suppose its frustrating when no one wants to acknowledge that the drum corps experience is no longer geared towards the fan or their consumer.DW Maybe because those people do not agree with your POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93Bluecoat Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 I am likely going to open a huge can of worms here (or perhaps kill this topic). If one was to look at DCI as a market system, chart its growth/recession, then one could make suggestions about the financial stability of DCI. That being the case, IF DCI has shown a trend toward less revenue and assets over the last several years, then one can suggest that either:A. DCI is not following best business practices (by encumbering questionable expenses and/or by loss of revenue) B. DCI is helping foster a climate that is not encouraging financial growth (by allowing an unwanted change of the product), or C. DCI has somehow changed the culture of expectation in relation to what corps is and what is expected of it (in turn alienating fans/alumni) I submit for your inspection, two examples. One is the DCI Federal 990 Tax form from 2003. The other is the DCI Federal 990 Tax form from 2008. DCI 2003 Federal 990 Tax Form DCI 2008 Federal 990 Tax Form Look closely. Are assets up over that time period? Is revenue down? Are expenses up? What do these things suggest about the organization and future of the activity? You should know better than this...these are returns for a nonprofit which means that revenue and expenses should end up fairly close. Revenue is up, as it should be. DCI has done things (most significantly through their website and new technology) to tap into new revenue streams. I will submit that looking at these numbers (revenue is UP 1.5 million from '03 ot '08), I would expect it to be more. The thing that the activity may be forgetting is that word of mouth advertising is the best form of advertising! Produce a better product, spend less money on shoving down your consumer's throat, use the money to help support struggling corps! Sorry, its late and I'm getting absurd! DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbandguy Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Actually I like it a lot, but there's more they can do with it...I want to see them really kick the ending. They are leaving out some of the best parts of that piece and it could work incredibly at the end of that show! They almost have it....DW I won't argue your point on this. The ending needs to be a STRONG climax to the show that simply pulls the fans onto their feet. If they can come up with this, finals night could be very exciting for the Bluecoats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93Bluecoat Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 Maybe because those people do not agree with your POV. Fair enough. DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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