DCI story on CNN.com

[WOOHOO]

What you say is brutally honest, but true none-the-less, unfortunately. I kind if think the Top6/7 design stuff their way and set the trends. The 12-8 groups do some of their own thing, while mimicking established trends that fit their style personally. The 17-12 corps seem to do cookie-cutter type shows, and hope that they're clean enough to squeak into finals. Once you get into finals, I think corps need to up their design game a bit, or they'll get bounced out of finals. See Spirit, Colts, Troopers and Crossmen lately; while their execution certainly doesn't help them, their blasé show designs aren't enough of a quality vehicle to push them into Finals. Colts have the best shot out of those others to reclaim a Finalist birth, but those show designs aren't memorable or strong enough to make an impression on the judges.

I really don't think this is unique for this year at all. It's always been like that since I've first started getting involved in this activity.

[PR_ducky]

You see, you're different from the other folks who complain that drum corps should go back to how it was when THEY marched. They're all like "i wantz teh g bugles and spats and tics nd stuff," but you're different. All of your points are good (except one, which I'll elaborate on in a minute). I would be totally okay with these things happening.

The one thing I disagree with is getting rid of electronics. I don't think they should be taken away completely, but I think how they're implemented into the show needs to change drastically. Right now, you're right - they're just being used to boost bass parts and duplicate other parts, and they don't really add anything interesting to the show. I would like it if people started using electronics in a manner similar to which the Bluecoats are doing. Take the baritone solo, for instance - it's played into a mic that doesn't just make it louder - it adds a unique and interesting effect that couldn't be done acoustically. It's not just some sound effect like a baby giggle or the sound of somebody biting into an apple - it's something new and, in my opinion, kinda cool.

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to go back to G bugles, they sounded better, put out more volume and just had a unique sound everyone associated with drum corps. I am practical though.

I still disagree about electronics. They have no place on the field. There is no way for an ensemble music judge to properly evaluate a horn line when keyboards are doubling horn parts. Electronics have done nothing but dumb down the activity. They are nothing but a shortcut and they stifle creativity.

CNN also had a video up of the "Top 5 drum corps shows".

All of the shows were from 93 or earlier and all used G horns and no electronics.

I am SOOOOO thankful I marched and taught corps from the mid 80s to mid 90s.

It was really the best possible time to be in the activity and it will never be that great again.

With every "improvement" they try to make to bring new fans or help the bottom line they degrade and hurt the activity with NO tangible benefit. Bb is no better than G, electronics are a total fail.

Every addition makes it more expensive to operate a corps when the goal should be to reduce costs.

I remember when there were TONS of corps on tour. I am sure there are barely half as many now as when I marched.

Sadly DCI is determined to run the activity into the ground. It really is getting close to the end.

[Madrid]

It's been boring, and boring isn't good for building fan interest.

I think boredom is the reason why Mr. Hopkins does what he does. The guy has been doing the same job for many, many years now and things haven't really changed much. So, like most people, when things get stagnant, and if you're of a certain personality type, you start pushing for change to alleviate the boredom. Can't really blame the guy. However, if this hypothesis is somewhat true than I'd rather him find a new career to make himself happy instead of changing something that so many, many people still like and even love in its current form.

Also along the lines of boredom and fan interest, I wonder, if there are that many old school drum corps fans that have walked away due to change and want 'their' version of drum corps back, would it be easier to keep things the same and get those folks back (risking losing those that are bored with the same-old-same-old) or is it easier to change everything in hopes that new fans will come in?

[purenjoyment]

Great point. and why the rest of the G7 can't see this is beyond me.

And another question how long is he going to go along with this World Series concept when The Cadets don't win? I know he has claimed that its not about winning. But come on, if its not about winning then why are you in a competitive enviroment? This is his idea, he'll be the innovator, and the Cadets will win for a while, but after other G7 corps get on the same page it will go to the way it is now, and if he dosent win he won't be happy.

And what ever happened to the corps that joined his yea organization? That didn't work too well.

They all have done better on their own.

Boston,Crown,Crossmen were involved. Am I leaving anyone out?

[bawker]

Fail.

If anything, the major corps are frustrated that so many of the other units have apparently given up even trying to compete for the top. For every Blue Stars who tries to break through, you've got 2 or three Spirits or Crossmen, corps that are still around but either can't or won't do the things necessary to start competing at the top levels. If there had been better competition over the last 20 years, maybe there'd be even more fan interest from a wider swath of the country; instead, we've all become used to the Usual Suspects competing to win, and everyone else being very nice drum corps.

It's been boring, and boring isn't good for building fan interest.

Crossmen lived in the shadow of YEA! to survive; Spirit does what it can to stay competitive. . .what you refer to as "can't or won't do the things necessary" I look at as the same judges rewarding the same people for doing variations on the same things. Spirit doesn't have the resources of the Cavaliers. Nor do most of the World Class corps, and money is what makes the "competition" go 'round, so of course the same players are in the same basic positions. It's just the way the players in the game wrote the rules.

So, I suppose if the rarefied air of the top "x" is bored with beating everyone else . . .well, that's the situation that they've painted themselves into over the past 35+ years of DCI . . .with rules and regulations they all voted for along the way. Don't act is if it's the lower placing corps fault for the G7's supposed ennui.

It'll be just as "boring" watching the same seven corps compete against each other, no matter how you dress it up with Cirque de NASCAR trappings.

If anything, getting rid of the G7 . . .if they leave . . .opens up the competition at the top to the corps that are left. Right now we'd be wondering if BAC, BK, Scouts or Blue Stars could win the title, and there might be a little suspense for us score-wise.

Hey, you might be on to something . . .

[perc2100]

I really don't think this is unique for this year at all. It's always been like that since I've first started getting involved in this activity.

I didn't mean to imply this was unique to this season. I'm fairly confident this has been the case forever. Everyone wants to copy the champions, and the champions typically have to constantly change their formula to stay fresh. The corps near the bottom are looking up at their competition and then imitating their designs with the thought of "they were rewarded for x last year, so we should do that too."

[WOOHOO]

I think boredom is the reason why Mr. Hopkins does what he does. The guy has been doing the same job for many, many years now and things haven't really changed much. So, like most people, when things get stagnant, and if you're of a certain personality type, you start pushing for change to alleviate the boredom. Can't really blame the guy. However, if this hypothesis is somewhat true than I'd rather him find a new career to make himself happy instead of changing something that so many, many people still like and even love in its current form.

Also along the lines of boredom and fan interest, I wonder, if there are that many old school drum corps fans that have walked away due to change and want 'their' version of drum corps back, would it be easier to keep things the same and get those folks back (risking losing those that are bored with the same-old-same-old) or is it easier to change everything in hopes that new fans will come in?

I'd think you'd have a hard time getting 18-22 year olds of now to march a 70's (whatever decade) style show and enjoy it

[purenjoyment]

I'd think you'd have a hard time getting 18-22 year olds of now to march a 70's (whatever decade) style show and enjoy it

True.

But the music needs to be more appealing if the fan base is to grow.

[PR_ducky]

I'd think you'd have a hard time getting 18-22 year olds of now to march a 70's (whatever decade) style show and enjoy it

Stylistically, shows of today are not very different from late 80s/early 90s

I agree about the 70s, but 70s shows were defined by the judging system in use which is completely opposite of what we have today.

Once they got off the tick system in the mid 80s the activity exploded.

If you've never seen them go get DVDs for 87,89,91,93, and 96 and watch them.

Drums, Horns, Guard.

I see nothing that has improved from these years due to Bb horns or electronics.

or would improve with woodwinds or anything else.

The road to recovery for drum corps starts when the powers that be stop trying to fix it.

The activity would be infinitely better off by going straight back to the 1996 rule book than they would by adding anything else.

[Madrid]

With every "improvement" they try to make to bring new fans or help the bottom line they degrade and hurt the activity with NO tangible benefit. Bb is no better than G, electronics are a total fail.

Every addition makes it more expensive to operate a corps when the goal should be to reduce costs.

When you put it this way, and if we're relating it to Mr. Hopkins, take into consideration that the guy absolutely LOVES Starbucks both as a coffee and as a company. Now, Starbucks essentially has already done to the cute coffee shop institution that Hopkins would like to do to drum corps. Starbucks took the simple idea of serving good coffee and turned it into what it is today...frappucinos, mp3's, smoothies...just a host of things that really aren't the norm in a 'coffee shop' and have ultimately tarnished the brand. Every time they introduce something new, they get further and further away from what they really are. A coffee shop. Even though it is still successful, it is pretty much a joke in the industry. However, like a phoenix, the backlash of Starbucks and their shenanigans is the rise of the indie coffee shop and the small batch roaster. Those two things would probably not exist if Starbucks didn't turn itself into a glutenous corporate monstrosity.

So, I guess what I'm saying is if it does happen...this G7, woodwind, et al shenanigans...well...maybe it's a good thing and, once it happens, the little guys will finally have some breathing room to do something better??

Maybe.

Does this even make sense?