DCP DCI Round Table Discussion

[silvertrombone]

A couple of people in another thread had some good ideas about DCI and holding a Round Table on DCP. Seemed like a good idea, so here goes. (editing both posters' replies)

1. What do you think about the music being played?

2. What do you about visuals? (Edit: I'll presume this refers to props, yes?)

3. How can we grow the activity?

4. What is the purpose of drum corps?

5. What do you think about electronics?

6. Should we / how can we make drum corps more inclusive to minorities and impoverished?

7. How do you feel about the "G7" proposal? (Edit: For perspective, consider mentioning if you are an alum of or otherwise connected to a "G7" corps.)

And from one other, another very interesting topic to consider.

The only topic I remember was about the shows available to fans out west. After July starts those drum corps fans have little to nothing come out their way. As I remember, there was discussion on how to get a group of corps to tour out there. I guess this was done a couple of years back and needed to be done again.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on California. For now, I'll concentrate on the seven issues listed by 'cage' above.

1. What do you think about the music being played?

Its a heckuva lot better than it was from 2004 to 2007! I came away from 2006 having heard about three corps' repertoire previously. And not much of those at that! Contrast that with the last two years' music and it is certainly much improved. Equally much more room for improvement going forward.

2. What do you about visuals?

I think props, if that is what 'cage' meant by visuals, need to be rewarded less if not excluded from the scoring entirely. Big budget productions are rewarded with props, electronics...heck even the expanded front ensemble of today!...at the expense (figuratively, since we can't keep up literally!) of "lower" or "smaller" corps. Having my name literally on the record for a corps now, I kind of resent judges literally looking at our outfit in terms as simple as "How many marimbas / xylophones do they have?" Forte & Genesis just placed in OC Finals as first-year corps. Make the field more level as far as who gets credit for how many trucks full of stuff they put on the field. Let's talk about show design. Let's talk about music (#1 above), etc. It IS a visual activity. But I simply don't listen to a VIDEO of DCI while on the freeway. Important point.

3. How can we grow the activity?

If you want GROWTH, then you want GROWTH. If you want DYNASTY, then YOU'VE GOT IT!! Any questions? The only way to truly grow the activity is to: 1.) Observe the HISTORY of DCI and recognize that certain trends have resulted for a reason. If you want to grow the activity (and this is a BIG turnabout from me from year's past!) it has got to happen more locally, which means REGIONALIZATION. Period. Call it DCMidwest, call it DCEast, call it DCSouth and DCWest, for example. Charge each region's corps with growing THEIR BASE and I'll betcha the rest will take care of itself. Nice situation we have now with Crown and Crossmen (not to mention Teal, Revo, Genesis, Forte and Music City) in the South. For the first time, really, ever we have a pretty decent representation everywhere...except maybe Canada. Shoot, with Genesis, Crossmen and Revo we have a pretty decent presence in SAN ANTONIO and the RIO GRAND VALLEY--how long before we have a better presence in the "Texas" valley than the "California" valley?

Open Class is the way to grow the activity. And yes, some things need to change at the World Class level. Big time.

4. What is the purpose of drum corps?

Used to be keeping the neighborhood kids off the street and out of trouble. To a degree it could still serve that purpose in limited instances, but that is not the purpose of the entire activity any longer. I didn't march to stay out of trouble, and that was 16-18 years ago. I marched to be in a world-class (note caps) marching organization. And I doubt that most fans in the stands are there to see the local neighborhood kids, though there are plenty of family members at any particular show. See below for "neighborhood" aspects in the 21st Century.

5. What do you think about electronics?

Electronics have their place. Shoot, even in drum corps. Again, they should not be the focus. And they certainly shouldn't (IMHO) be rewarded in the captions or a corps deducted for their absence. I have yet to see a GREAT use of electronics in a drum corps show. Some good ones, but not that "89 SCV"-type show that makes me say, "Yeah, THAT'S what I've been talking about!" Give me that. And yeah, Broadway seems the pretty ideal vehicle to me to relay that. Could be HUGE for the activity if we effectively make that transition. We have not yet. And I'm not sure I want to. Convince me.

6. Should we / how can we make drum corps more inclusive to minorities and impoverished?

ABSOLUTELY!! This is a GREAT area of potential growth for drum corps, start-up's, DCI, et al. Grant money galore abounds for the groups that "adopt" a metro area's disadvantaged youth and open up drum corps to them. Where is the grant money? Somebody who knows point me in its direction. How do we apply for it? Who do we call? How many youth do we need to recruit? I could probably trek down to Oak Cliff and recruit that number times 10 this Monday and that's just here in Dallas! Further, if DCI used to be "non-musicians," I wouldn't even start in the band halls--I'd go to County juvenile and ask for their 150 worst who needed a good "public service" opportunity in order to commute some juvenile crime to probation and eventually have it removed from their record. Any thoughts?

7. How do you feel about the "G7" proposal?

Trash. Period. I'll refrain from commenting further for now.

Any further issues anyone would like to include? Speak now--you never know who's reading this thread!

[tdmooring]

Electronics:

I feel a great many fans are drawn to drum corps for the music and drum corps' unique and distinct sound. I can debate all day about the level/influence and balance between the visual and musical components but at the end of the day there have always been a changing handful of corps that emphasize their music in any given year irregardless of placement and those are the shows that I enjoy and support through donation and/or purchase.

Unfortunately, the addition synthesized sound and samples have GREATLY diminished my enjoyment in listening to shows. I have always loved live music and felt that live music has a greater emotional and more powerful impact opposed to heavily processed studio music. This is where I found enjoyment musically and this is where I fell in love with drum corp.

This years shows (with all the great music) stands out. I absolutely loved the music from the Bluecoats and the Blue Stars but I felt (for me) that the synthesized additions to their individual show didn't add anything special to them and I would personally have greatly loved to hear an acoustical version if each show. To me, if SCV were to do Miss Saigon today we most likely would not hear the imaginative and powerful effects that made that show so enjoyable and memorable. Today we would find corps simply adding "canned" audio effects instead of exploring, experimenting and learning the musical evolution of a show/concept. I am continually amazed at the level of musicianship and physical ability of today's members and to me the addition of synthesized audio and effects cheapens this high level of accomplishment.

Drum corps had a powerful acoustical element to their shows long before I (and many others) became fans so I don't necessary buy the argument that this where Drum Corps NEEDS to go in order to continue and be successful. I don't "hate" or "despise" the idea of synthesized audio/effects, I simply don't enjoy it and there are a great many fans that feel the same. I'm sure some corps will continue to find creative and interesting ways to use this new tool however that is not a product that I will particularly look for. Ultimately if this is the direction the DCI decides to go, then that is their choice. Fans that feel as I do will simply find other musical avenues to enjoy and the individuals that prefer the processed audio and effects in drum corps will be the ones left. But to saying that drum corps NEED to move in this direction is like saying athletes NEED steroids to help keep sports entertaining.

Edited August 22, 2010 by tdmooring

[Michael Boo]

Discussion is always a good way to learn, but I've long thought DCP already is a roundtable.

[FHdork]

<Grant money galore abounds for the groups that "adopt" a metro area's disadvantaged youth and open up drum corps to them. Where is the grant money? >

I'm confused - if Grant money abounds, YOU point drum corps toward it -

imo, Grant money is very scarce these days...and it comes with not only strings, but veritable steel cables attached that are so limiting, so tough to work with, it's not worth the time, effort, frustration, and ultimately, the expense (yes...it costs BIG money to fulfill your grant) of seeking out what money there is -

Of course - I'll be VERY happy to be schooled out of my ignorance -

[A Cavalier TDY]

imo, Grant money is very scarce these days...and it comes with not only strings, but veritable steel cables attached that are so limiting, so tough to work with, it's not worth the time, effort, frustration, and ultimately, the expense (yes...it costs BIG money to fulfill your grant) of seeking out what money there is

An organizations mission should determine whether or not they should go after grants funding. More often than not, I find what you're sayig is more the truth. The constant search for funding drives the mission. An organization eventually loses their way.

[ShortAndFast]

imo, Grant money is very scarce these days...and it comes with not only strings, but veritable steel cables attached that are so limiting, so tough to work with, it's not worth the time, effort, frustration, and ultimately, the expense (yes...it costs BIG money to fulfill your grant) of seeking out what money there is -

There are plenty of arts non-profits that do very well with both public and private grants. I think the challenge for a drum corps is that their costs are just enormous relative to other arts groups with a "music education" mission. The "City of X Arts Commission" can give $5000 to a youth symphony and make a huge difference in their budget in terms of how many students they serve, how many performances they can give, etc.. The same grant to a drum corps would basically have no impact.

[thirdcoast]

I love this! Great read.

[Todd Tanji]

1. What do you think about the music being played?

Not enough variety. Too much stock classical and not enough jazz, rock, blues,

funk, world, ethnic, etc.

2. What do you about visuals? (Edit: I'll presume this refers to props, yes?)

Sometimes props work, sometimes they don't. If corps are going to use them, then

make them integral to the show in a way that enhances. Don't just set them out there

and play with them once in a while.

3. How can we grow the activity?

*Warning: many of you are not going to like the next paragraphs.*

Target the most important demographic - young people, including minority populations.

Replace the current announcers for events and media with young people that represent a

more broad cross-section of American. That means women and minorities. Events, media,

and show designs should primarily target the tastes of the younger generation. This is an

activity performed by young people for young people.

Better promo material that can go viral that highlights the virtuosity of what drum corps

kids do and presents the greatness of the sound. Right now we can't present YouTube

videos because they will violate copyrights. That needs to change! Compose some

decent original music so that the activity can effectively advertise the drum corps experience

to new fans. Right now the activity has lots of arrangers, but no compelling composers.

Put together events that are professional calibre from start to finish. Get rid of dead time

between shows and present constant entertainment like one would expect from any

professional event.

4. What is the purpose of drum corps?

You can argue about this until the end of the world but sheer economics forces us to a

place where we will only survive if we bring fans to events. Hence, drum corps is

professional entertainment and we have to treat it as such even though drum corps

are non-profits. I wish it were not so and we could focus more on youth development

without worrying about filling the stands but that isn't reality. If we do not demonstrate

our economic relevance to the world we will not survive.

5. What do you think about electronics?

While at times overused, electronics add an important new dimension to drum corps programs.

As young people are the priority demographic, and they are growing up in an electronic

world, we need to include this as part of artistic expression.

6. Should we / how can we make drum corps more inclusive to minorities and impoverished?

Scholarships, LOTS of them, to make drum corps more affordable. DCI should have a scholarship

fund solely for this purpose. Lots of donors would support this and many grants would be

available.

7. How do you feel about the "G7" proposal? (Edit: For perspective, consider mentioning if you are an alum of or otherwise connected to a "G7" corps.)

No comment.

[Lance]

Big props don't score points simply for being big props. Chairs and mirrors for BD and fences and front panels for corps like BK and Crown and titanic screens/panels like Spirit (which makes them the richest corps, evidently, by the bizarro-world logic of some) used this year are not terribly expensive, despite the histrionics and hysterics that some continue to crow in the general direction of the handful of people who care to listen and repeat it.

National touring for 2 months for a competitive marching music program will never be an activity conducive toward the impoverished. Making it more regional might help, though it would still be very expensive. Every so often, we hear warm fuzzy stories about isolated inner city music programs, few of which seem to last long. Music (nevermind marching music with touring) is an expensive activity, and has been for some time. Even a lot of HS band programs that receive some disctrict and levy funding would die if they didn't have staff getting paid pennies per hour to do it because they love it. Scholarships are a wonderful idea, of course, but they can only do so much to increase the numbers for those in lower socioeconomic status...it's not just about cash on hand for paying fees for most of these kids. The absence from their households for 3-4 months has huge financial impact on the family aside from that.

I'd like more variety in music, and more focus on music overall.

As for growing it, it's funny to see the delusions of grandeur that so many have on here about how 12 Madison Scouts 2010 or Cadets 2000 shows in a row would magically draw huge crowds. Same with Madison 95 or even Phantom 2008....as cool and amazing as so many drum corps geeks seem to think bullfighters dancing on boxes and then tossing and breaking pretty red satin flags over their knees is or pretending to be revolting slaves is, 99% of the nation makes fun of any and all things marching on a football field that isn't party tunes as background music for drinking beer or waiting in line for beer.

To try to get more marching band geeks to come to shows, do what BDUFLS suggested above. It's a youth activity.

I'd love for electronics to go away, please. Never happen, though.

To get some clarifcation on the opening post, when was the entirety (or even majority) of drum corps all about keeping street kids out of trouble? When did this end?

[SF2K4]

I like your point on #2. If a corps wants to use a multitude of props and/or electronics and/or etc., more power to them. However, if a corps DOESN'T want to or, worse yet, CAN'T AFFORD them, they should not be punished. I know we always say a corps doesn't want to compete with one hand behind it's back, but if the electronics/woodwinds/props support group want them because they want artistic freedom for the corps then the corps should be free to also forgo the use of such items if they so choose.