Has Drum Corps Lost Its Soul

[84skyrydr]

Yes, as one change among others to continue the decades old process of changes to keep drum corps relevant and attractive to audiences. Not "electronics=more people", but rather "more relevant and contemporary drum corps = more people". IMO the two are not the same thing.

To keep being relevant to the audience. What audience are you referring to? The one that gets smaller each year? The one that has shown stagnant growth to the point of DCI not saying what attendance was. I am quite sure if the audience was growing we would have that idea pumped with stats to back it.

[84skyrydr]

Yes, as one change among others to continue the decades old process of changes to keep drum corps relevant and attractive to audiences. Not "electronics=more people", but rather more relevant and contemporary drum corps = more people". IMO the two are not the same thing.

So with audiences shrinking, maybe change has caused all of that. Cause and effect, right? What exactly is "relevant and contemporary?" How is that working for the masses?

[JimF-LowBari]

Could someone give a nice definition of "relevant" as it refers to Drum Corps.

To me it sounds like throwing out (or throwing up) a hard to quantify buzz word to justify changes.

Yeah, we're relevant.... expensive as Hell to run a corps, start up corps and buy tickets.... but we're relevant so it's OK.

Edited September 8, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[mgarside83]

One of Hopkins's justifications for his proposal to change the rules to allow full use of electronics, in that very proposal, was that such new-fangled gizmos would attract a larger, younger audience. It really is that clear. That's all I've been saying. I'm sure Hopkins thinks other changes will also increase audience size; I'm also sure that no one on these boards doubts that Hopkins believes that electronics are just one of several adjustments that will increase audience size. But here he was making an argument for allowing electronics -- presumably he wouldn't have cited the need to appeal to a young audience in that document if he didn't think it supported his case for electronics.

For quick reference, here is the relevant portion of the proposal:

Again I'll note that the young audience of 1975 had known Rock all their lives, and that MTV hasn't played music for years -- which is to say, he doesn't seem to know what he's talking about.

So Hops idea of cool to high school aged youth was putting Little Geoffrey on the field and doing a show about toy soldiers!?

[mgarside83]

So Hops idea of cool to high school aged youth was putting Little Geoffrey on the field and doing a show about toy soldiers!?

I don't think all of Hops ideas are bad ones. I think DCI targeting high school marching band programs is a good thing. 2 million student in marching bands. Why wouldn't DCI want to reach them? They are not just future fans, but future corps members as well. Hop has some good ideas, IMO he just has terrible ideas on how to carry that out. I mean seriously, Toy Soldiers is supposed to be cool to a high school kid? Baby sounds on a PA will attract the masses.

In that post about past, present and future all his statements were based on stereotypes of what's cool to teenagers. MTV! Rap music! That's what kids love! Maybe some real marketing research should be done by people who know marketing and public relations. Find out what kids are interested in the activity now, what they think is cool, and use those mediums to target other similar kids to the activity that maybe never heard of it. Also, finding out how the current youth fans found out about the activity in the first place. My high school drum intructor introduced us to the activity. Had she not, we would never have even heard of it. Our high school band director hated drum corps. In fact he dropped me a letter grade in band my senior year for missing a parade to audition for DCI. Maybe targeting band directors and instructors is the way to reaching these youth. I know some efforts have been made regarding that, but certainly not enough.

What I'm getting at is some real research needs to be done for marketing purposes. Not marketing based on assumptions and ignorance. Being a public relations major in college, I've talked to many people on how drum corps in general could stand to greatly improve its marketing strategies. I've heard many great ideas and have some fo my own, but whenever I share them with anyone in a position to do something with them, they fall on deaf ears. And that's fine. I'll keep trying.

In my experience I've dealt with band director egos and drum corps egos who think they know all the answers when it comes to marketing and recruiting. Most of them, if not all, were way out of touch with what was relevant to the audience they were trying to reach. Knowing the activity, or being good at teaching and designing doesn't make you an expert in marketing.

I think for the activity to grow, each corps needs a marketing person who's background is in marketing, and they would form a marketing comittee that carried out marketing for DCI as a whole. The first thing they need is a target market, which I think Hop is actually on the right path with. However, right now, they are trying to reach that market without doing their research and they end up looking like fools to the market they are trying to reach. No assumptions should be made about how or what the the target market thinks. Research needs to be done. Kids today are not that simple. If I was a kid and read that statement about watching MTV and listening to Rap I would be very turned off to whatever you were trying to sell me. I'm not some zombie who sits on the couch watching MTV all day. And if I was, I woudn't be the kind of kid who would be interested in going to a DCI show anyway. Certainly not the kind of kid who would march anywhere.

[CrownStarr]

I don't think all of Hops ideas are bad ones. I think DCI targeting high school marching band programs is a good thing. 2 million student in marching bands. Why wouldn't DCI want to reach them? They are not just future fans, but future corps members as well. Hop has some good ideas, IMO he just has terrible ideas on how to carry that out. I mean seriously, Toy Soldiers is supposed to be cool to a high school kid? Baby sounds on a PA will attract the masses.

In that post about past, present and future all his statements were based on stereotypes of what's cool to teenagers. MTV! Rap music! That's what kids love! Maybe some real marketing research should be done by people who know marketing and public relations. Find out what kids are interested in the activity now, what they think is cool, and use those mediums to target other similar kids to the activity that maybe never heard of it. Also, finding out how the current youth fans found out about the activity in the first place. My high school drum intructor introduced us to the activity. Had she not, we would never have even heard of it. Our high school band director hated drum corps. In fact he dropped me a letter grade in band my senior year for missing a parade to audition for DCI. Maybe targeting band directors and instructors is the way to reaching these youth. I know some efforts have been made regarding that, but certainly not enough.

What I'm getting at is some real research needs to be done for marketing purposes. Not marketing based on assumptions and ignorance. Being a public relations major in college, I've talked to many people on how drum corps in general could stand to greatly improve its marketing strategies. I've heard many great ideas and have some fo my own, but whenever I share them with anyone in a position to do something with them, they fall on deaf ears. And that's fine. I'll keep trying.

In my experience I've dealt with band director egos and drum corps egos who think they know all the answers when it comes to marketing and recruiting. Most of them, if not all, were way out of touch with what was relevant to the audience they were trying to reach. Knowing the activity, or being good at teaching and designing doesn't make you an expert in marketing.

I think for the activity to grow, each corps needs a marketing person who's background is in marketing, and they would form a marketing comittee that carried out marketing for DCI as a whole. The first thing they need is a target market, which I think Hop is actually on the right path with. However, right now, they are trying to reach that market without doing their research and they end up looking like fools to the market they are trying to reach. No assumptions should be made about how or what the the target market thinks. Research needs to be done. Kids today are not that simple. If I was a kid and read that statement about watching MTV and listening to Rap I would be very turned off to whatever you were trying to sell me. I'm not some zombie who sits on the couch watching MTV all day. And if I was, I woudn't be the kind of kid who would be interested in going to a DCI show anyway. Certainly not the kind of kid who would march anywhere.

Hear hear! Great post. I really cringed when I read Hop's MTV and rap description. He has the right idea with trying to reach out to the younger generation, but if you go about it without any kind of actual research, you risk turning into this.

[bawker]

but if you go about it without any kind of actual research, you risk turning into this.

However, that did give us this, which is awesome.

[mgarside83]

Hear hear! Great post. I really cringed when I read Hop's MTV and rap description. He has the right idea with trying to reach out to the younger generation, but if you go about it without any kind of actual research, you risk turning into this.

Hahahahahaha................nice!

[Jeff Ream]

I don't think all of Hops ideas are bad ones. I think DCI targeting high school marching band programs is a good thing. 2 million student in marching bands. Why wouldn't DCI want to reach them? They are not just future fans, but future corps members as well. Hop has some good ideas, IMO he just has terrible ideas on how to carry that out. I mean seriously, Toy Soldiers is supposed to be cool to a high school kid? Baby sounds on a PA will attract the masses.

In that post about past, present and future all his statements were based on stereotypes of what's cool to teenagers. MTV! Rap music! That's what kids love! Maybe some real marketing research should be done by people who know marketing and public relations. Find out what kids are interested in the activity now, what they think is cool, and use those mediums to target other similar kids to the activity that maybe never heard of it. Also, finding out how the current youth fans found out about the activity in the first place. My high school drum intructor introduced us to the activity. Had she not, we would never have even heard of it. Our high school band director hated drum corps. In fact he dropped me a letter grade in band my senior year for missing a parade to audition for DCI. Maybe targeting band directors and instructors is the way to reaching these youth. I know some efforts have been made regarding that, but certainly not enough.

What I'm getting at is some real research needs to be done for marketing purposes. Not marketing based on assumptions and ignorance. Being a public relations major in college, I've talked to many people on how drum corps in general could stand to greatly improve its marketing strategies. I've heard many great ideas and have some fo my own, but whenever I share them with anyone in a position to do something with them, they fall on deaf ears. And that's fine. I'll keep trying.

In my experience I've dealt with band director egos and drum corps egos who think they know all the answers when it comes to marketing and recruiting. Most of them, if not all, were way out of touch with what was relevant to the audience they were trying to reach. Knowing the activity, or being good at teaching and designing doesn't make you an expert in marketing.

I think for the activity to grow, each corps needs a marketing person who's background is in marketing, and they would form a marketing comittee that carried out marketing for DCI as a whole. The first thing they need is a target market, which I think Hop is actually on the right path with. However, right now, they are trying to reach that market without doing their research and they end up looking like fools to the market they are trying to reach. No assumptions should be made about how or what the the target market thinks. Research needs to be done. Kids today are not that simple. If I was a kid and read that statement about watching MTV and listening to Rap I would be very turned off to whatever you were trying to sell me. I'm not some zombie who sits on the couch watching MTV all day. And if I was, I woudn't be the kind of kid who would be interested in going to a DCI show anyway. Certainly not the kind of kid who would march anywhere.

agreed on a lot. but there is more than just the kids market. Look at how in the proposal posted, he takes shots at older fans that, to be honest kept DCI afloat 15 years ago when things looked really bad.

it's more expensive to keep replacing fans. that's business 101,. the ultimate model is to KEEp fans while adding new ones. And here, I don't see DCi doing that...especially when you have directors putting out proposals that takes shots at certain segments of the fan base...and it's available for the whole world to see

[mgarside83]

agreed on a lot. but there is more than just the kids market. Look at how in the proposal posted, he takes shots at older fans that, to be honest kept DCI afloat 15 years ago when things looked really bad.

it's more expensive to keep replacing fans. that's business 101,. the ultimate model is to KEEp fans while adding new ones. And here, I don't see DCi doing that...especially when you have directors putting out proposals that takes shots at certain segments of the fan base...and it's available for the whole world to see

Agreed, I wasn't saying Hop has it all right. I'm just saying all his ideas aren't bad, he just isn't so good at execution.......hahahaha 8.9 in design/demand - 2.1 in execution.

Driving off loyal fans is stupid. Plain and simple. Going after new fans is smart. They need to do both. My suggestion is that the activity is not broken, so stop trying to fix it. Fix the poor marketing efforts. It's like a company with a great car to sell, but hires terrible salesmen. We need a great car with great salesmen. I started a new discussion on this topic, I look forward to your insight Jeff.