Has Drum Corps Lost Its Soul

[mgarside83]

except none of the ideas are based in fact.

I know a corps who used electronics to save money and save storage/transportation space. No timpani saves tens of thousands of dollars.

There will be no regional touring available except in the Midwest. The East Coast tried it for at least 2 years in the 90s with the four remaining corps and a bunch of II/IIIs. Fans did not want to pay to see the same shows night after night 200 miles away.

There are not and have never been enough fan support for national touring. National touring really does not exist today. Most corps stay in their region for the first 2-3 weeks and then join in San Antonio. This year was an exception as the season was a week longer due to the calendar and both BD and SCV decided to go to the Midwest early in the season.

Drum corps has gotten more expensive because everything has gotten more expensive. Drum corps has little control over the economic upticks and downswings. They are affected as all of us are affected.

Drum corps just needs to get better at entertaining the fans. There's a sweet spot there and the guys meeting this fall and winter need to work harder than they ever have before..to find it.

That in short is what is needed. And needed now.

Are you at DCA, Jeff? I would imagine the attendance there has fallen a little bit too. Bad weather moving in tomorrow. Here's hoping it stays way east of the competition. DCA was knocking out over 7500 just 2-3 years back. Not getting those numbers any more either...so it's all relative.

The fan base is shrinking because of mortality over anything else. So, as us old geezers try to enjoy drum corps for the rest of our existence, the least I can ask is for it to entertain...,make the place light up...standing Os during the performances would be nice.

So if regional touring doesn't work, and national touring doesn't work........what exactly do you suggest? And, my post comes from personal experience. Sure Timpani are expensive, but corps don't need to get new sets every year. The ones that can afford to should try to sell their used equiment at significantly discount prices for less financially successful corps.

Using this logic, all expensive instruments could be replaced with electronics. Is that what you suggest? I don't think so. This year, for instance, synthesizers boosted the low brass sound. It's a easy leap to just have them replace it all together. Much cheaper than buying 20 marching tubas like Madison had.

When I go to shows, a good percentage of the fans are former marchers. Maybe even most, but I don't know the statisitics. So, isn't it safe to say that the more youth that march today, the more fans and supporters there will be tomorrow? This isn't an overnight fix.

I believe the future of the activity lies in the marching members. The fewer of them, the fewer fans in the future. If we don't make the corps experience more accessible, DCI will die. Electronics were supposed to fix this right? But it didn't. Now we're discussing woodwinds, maybe that will fix it? Yeah right. What happens on the field wasn't broken until we started messing with it. I think the more more we mess with it and ignore the fact that the activity is inaccessible to entire finacial classes, the faster we will push it out of existence all together.

[mgarside83]

So if regional touring doesn't work, and national touring doesn't work........what exactly do you suggest? And, my post comes from personal experience. Sure Timpani are expensive, but corps don't need to get new sets every year. The ones that can afford to should try to sell their used equiment at significantly discount prices for less financially successful corps.

Using this logic, all expensive instruments could be replaced with electronics. Is that what you suggest? I don't think so. This year, for instance, synthesizers boosted the low brass sound. It's a easy leap to just have them replace it all together. Much cheaper than buying 20 marching tubas like Madison had.

When I go to shows, a good percentage of the fans are former marchers. Maybe even most, but I don't know the statisitics. So, isn't it safe to say that the more youth that march today, the more fans and supporters there will be tomorrow? This isn't an overnight fix.

I believe the future of the activity lies in the marching members. The fewer of them, the fewer fans in the future. If we don't make the corps experience more accessible, DCI will die. Electronics were supposed to fix this right? But it didn't. Now we're discussing woodwinds, maybe that will fix it? Yeah right. What happens on the field wasn't broken until we started messing with it. I think the more more we mess with it and ignore the fact that the activity is inaccessible to entire finacial classes, the faster we will push it out of existence all together.

And let me explain that last statement a little better. i don't think all the changes in DCI made things worse, I just think with electronics and woodwinds, now we are changing the definition of drum corps all together. Pit percussion, is a huge improvement from 60's and 70's drum corps, and adds all kinds of layers and depth to the music, and also allows the marching members opportunities to expand the visual element while the pit carries the musical load at times. And, there are still only percussion and brass. I won't discuss Bb, as I am a drummer and am not an expert on the pros and cons there.

I just like watching the natural human achivement to create awesome musical and visual effect. Pushing buttons on a synth isn't pushing the envelope of human achievement within the activity at all. It's "fake".

[Jeff Ream]

I will be at DCa tomorrow yes Tom. no clue about attendance, but I know last year it fell, maybe 300-400 people.

and yes, much of what he says here is based in fact. mgarside is someone out there promoting the activity and helping to grow it at the local levels, not sitting here on DCP ttelling us all of their expertise and then doing nothing to back it up.

sure no tympani may have saved money...if they sold them. but that truck probably also had to go several thousdand extra miles with the tour scheduling...so it is money saved?

the East had what you could call an extended regional tour...basically the east and the southeast combined into one tour...for years. perhaps yu remember DCE and DCI Atlantic. i wont bore you with facts,m you can look it up on corpsreps.

and as far as the season being a week longer, really, it affected maybe 2/3 shows...then boom, everyone started hauling around the globe. answer me please, how far is it from Rockford to Charleston WV? they easily could havehad shows right out there in Illinois...but no, they didn't.

and drum corps has gotten more expensive like everything, but do you see any planning to be prepared for that? no.

the guys at the meeting this fall i think are in for a wakeup call when Cesario speaks. I really wish I could be a fly on that wall.

and actually, DCA was over 8k a few years ago, and it isn't that far off...plus shows in areas that never had them before. DCA is doing pretty good considering...because, except for once a year, they don't require everyone to criss cross the globe.

except none of the ideas are based in fact.

I know a corps who used electronics to save money and save storage/transportation space. No timpani saves tens of thousands of dollars.

There will be no regional touring available except in the Midwest. The East Coast tried it for at least 2 years in the 90s with the four remaining corps and a bunch of II/IIIs. Fans did not want to pay to see the same shows night after night 200 miles away.

There are not and have never been enough fan support for national touring. National touring really does not exist today. Most corps stay in their region for the first 2-3 weeks and then join in San Antonio. This year was an exception as the season was a week longer due to the calendar and both BD and SCV decided to go to the Midwest early in the season.

Drum corps has gotten more expensive because everything has gotten more expensive. Drum corps has little control over the economic upticks and downswings. They are affected as all of us are affected.

Drum corps just needs to get better at entertaining the fans. There's a sweet spot there and the guys meeting this fall and winter need to work harder than they ever have before..to find it.

That in short is what is needed. And needed now.

Are you at DCA, Jeff? I would imagine the attendance there has fallen a little bit too. Bad weather moving in tomorrow. Here's hoping it stays way east of the competition. DCA was knocking out over 7500 just 2-3 years back. Not getting those numbers any more either...so it's all relative.

The fan base is shrinking because of mortality over anything else. So, as us old geezers try to enjoy drum corps for the rest of our existence, the least I can ask is for it to entertain...,make the place light up...standing Os during the performances would be nice.

[Tom Brace]

So if regional touring doesn't work, and national touring doesn't work........what exactly do you suggest? And, my post comes from personal experience. Sure Timpani are expensive, but corps don't need to get new sets every year. The ones that can afford to should try to sell their used equiment at significantly discount prices for less financially successful corps.

They already do. Well, the ones who get there's from instrument companies do every few years. But have you priced timpani heads lately? Timpani are great concert instruments, but although great for field shows, the instrument really isn't designed for 15-16 hours in the sun.

Using this logic, all expensive instruments could be replaced with electronics. Is that what you suggest? I don't think so. This year, for instance, synthesizers boosted the low brass sound. It's a easy leap to just have them replace it all together. Much cheaper than buying 20 marching tubas like Madison had.

No, I never suggested that. Your argument here is straw man. Electronics are approved. Someone stated they added to the cost of a drum corps...I pointed out an instance where a corps actually saved money and transportation space by choosing electronics over the acoustic instrument. I thought it a smart choice in this one instance. That's all.

When I go to shows, a good percentage of the fans are former marchers. Maybe even most, but I don't know the statisitics. So, isn't it safe to say that the more youth that march today, the more fans and supporters there will be tomorrow? This isn't an overnight fix.

When I go to shows, most of the audience is younger band members and their instructors and/or parents.

I believe the future of the activity lies in the marching members. The fewer of them, the fewer fans in the future. If we don't make the corps experience more accessible, DCI will die. Electronics were supposed to fix this right? But it didn't. Now we're discussing woodwinds, maybe that will fix it? Yeah right. What happens on the field wasn't broken until we started messing with it. I think the more more we mess with it and ignore the fact that the activity is inaccessible to entire finacial classes, the faster we will push it out of existence all together.

Electronics were never vaunted as a fix. I don't know how many times I have to say this. No corps is obligated to use electronics. It is a choice. There are no mandates. Corps choose to use electronics. What's your favorite 3 corps? Come up with, oh $250,000 with the condition they don't use electronics for a year. I wager 2 of 3 take the deal.

New membership is not dependent on pleasing current fans. The two are and have always been exclusive. Shows can please fans, but the members are more interested in placement...at least that's what the numbers tell us from the audition totals. It matters not whether BDs show is entertaining to the fans, they are still going to have a record number of auditions.

Woodwinds are not a magic silver bullet and neither was electronics...it was offering more choices to the corps and nothing else. I have said this elsewhere and I believe it bears repeating...there are no magic silver bullets. There are no easy fixes. There are still members. More members than there are spots for in some corps and less so in others. There are fewer fans. I contend the roughly 3K fewer fans at finals in DCI and the 1K fewer fans in recent years at DCA has more to do with the economy and natural attrition of the drum corps fans. More fans are dying than there are new fans to replace them. Why are we not attracting fans? Because drum corps is further and further from a mainstream activity both for members and new potential fans.

I would say we have less of a problem attracting members because of the outreach to the more scholastic programs..WGI, MENC, BOA, etc.

[Jeff Ream]

electronics were vaunted as a fix, and a boon to future attendance Tom. go back and read the PR

[Tom Brace]

I will be at DCa tomorrow yes Tom. no clue about attendance, but I know last year it fell, maybe 300-400 people.

and yes, much of what he says here is based in fact. mgarside is someone out there promoting the activity and helping to grow it at the local levels, not sitting here on DCP ttelling us all of their expertise and then doing nothing to back it up.

sure no tympani may have saved money...if they sold them. but that truck probably also had to go several thousdand extra miles with the tour scheduling...so it is money saved?

the East had what you could call an extended regional tour...basically the east and the southeast combined into one tour...for years. perhaps yu remember DCE and DCI Atlantic. i wont bore you with facts,m you can look it up on corpsreps.

and as far as the season being a week longer, really, it affected maybe 2/3 shows...then boom, everyone started hauling around the globe. answer me please, how far is it from Rockford to Charleston WV? they easily could havehad shows right out there in Illinois...but no, they didn't.

and drum corps has gotten more expensive like everything, but do you see any planning to be prepared for that? no.

the guys at the meeting this fall i think are in for a wakeup call when Cesario speaks. I really wish I could be a fly on that wall.

and actually, DCA was over 8k a few years ago, and it isn't that far off...plus shows in areas that never had them before. DCA is doing pretty good considering...because, except for once a year, they don't require everyone to criss cross the globe.

First, my DCA sources tell me last year's attendance dropoff was double the number you are stating (almost 800 fewer).

Next, I agree...people who aren't doing something to try to help and make a difference shouldn't try to show off their expertise. I am certainly glad I am not one of those people.

Next, price out a set of 5 timpani heads...it cost about the same as a Yamaha MO-8. That's JUST THE HEADS.

The East had 3 years in the 90s with Boston, Cadets, Crown and Magic or Crossmen before they left for Texas(1 of those years)...and a smattering of II/III corps. FACT. That was the show. Cadets won every one of those shows. There was no competition in the East for Cadets in those days.

Next, I could Google map it, but suffice to say, the powers in DCI determined awhile back that having shows in Dixon, Streator, Oswego night after night wasn't as profitable as having one show in Normal for instance. Also, the sponsors for those shows were not finding them as profitable either.

I think the wake up has already occurred way before Mr. Cesario has anything to say.

As far as criss crossing the globe. I support a corps in Tempe. They went to California for shows. Then they went to Texas to join the tour to Indianapolis. They weren't required to criss cross anywhere. They finished 14th thank you without crisscrossing. Colts crisscrossed less.. They finished 13th? Chart Madison's touring schedule for me please? They finished 10th. How about BD, the first place corps. They spent a week in California...then they went to the Midwest where finals are. They spent the rest of the season in the east.

I don't see your points here Jeff.

I did edit this post to say this...I hope the weather is great and I hope you have a great time. No, I know you will have a great time. Enjoy this great drum corps weekend, Jeff.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Tom Brace

[Kansan]

I would say that modern drum corps continues to be a wholesome activity that teaches young people discipline, respect, and fitness. Not sure what that has to do with a "soul".

I've been struggling with how to even respond here. Do you attend drum corps shows in your area? Do you actively support your local corps? If you want to grow the activity, that's the first place to start. If you don't like the current rules or judging practices, well, I don't know what to say. I'm frustrated with a lot of changes over the past decade, and it's fun to argue about them here and whether they are good or bad for the future of the activity, but at the same time, I still love watching drum corps.

You're starting from a historical point of view, and all the changes that you don't like from the entire DCI era, but all we can have an effect on is the present. Instead of railing against 40 years worth of changes, how about getting in there, supporting what's good in the activity, working to make it grow, and when opportunities arise, argue for the changes you think would make the activity better.

There are no more local corps. I think that's part of the problem that th eoriginal poster is sad about.

It would be nice to see the activity return to it's roots by once again haveing Church Sopnsored, Boys and Girls Clubs sponsored, Police Sponsored.............Yes it's nice to see an ovet the top Drum & Bugle Corps that is over the top but as I see it soem of those "Top" Corps have lost touch with the community and fans. It could be argued that losing touch with their communities and destroyed many Drum Corps.

I know when Sky Ryders became a Corps that only had 6 participants from Hutchinson, KS, maybe 6 or so others from other parts of Kansas and the rest from outside Kansas, is when the Corps Board of Directors felt the Corps had lost community support and as a result their bingo revenue and the Corps folded then reemerged in Texas and then faded away.

I believe if the Sky Ryders could have maintained ties to Kansas by recruiting mainly in Kansas then the citizens of Kansas would have supported the Corps it maybe Sky Ryders would still be competing. Why not, all the other Kansas Corps where already gone so Sky Ryders had the entire state to themselves.

Yes, I would say Junior Drum Corps has lost it's soul and that's why there are so few today.

If the Economy continues to kill peoples finances and year round school keep expanding then I really believe the answere is for Drum & Bugle Corps to go back to it's roots of the Community based marching unit.

[Tom Brace]

There are no more local corps. I think that's part of the problem that th eoriginal poster is sad about.

It would be nice to see the activity return to it's roots by once again haveing Church Sopnsored, Boys and Girls Clubs sponsored, Police Sponsored.............Yes it's nice to see an ovet the top Drum & Bugle Corps that is over the top but as I see it soem of those "Top" Corps have lost touch with the community and fans. It could be argued that losing touch with their communities and destroyed many Drum Corps.

I know when Sky Ryders became a Corps that only had 6 participants from Hutchinson, KS, maybe 6 or so others from other parts of Kansas and the rest from outside Kansas, is when the Corps Board of Directors felt the Corps had lost community support and as a result their bingo revenue and the Corps folded then reemerged in Texas and then faded away.

I believe if the Sky Ryders could have maintained ties to Kansas by recruiting mainly in Kansas then the citizens of Kansas would have supported the Corps it maybe Sky Ryders would still be competing. Why not, all the other Kansas Corps where already gone so Sky Ryders had the entire state to themselves.

Yes, I would say Junior Drum Corps has lost it's soul and that's why there are so few today.

If the Economy continues to kill peoples finances and year round school keep expanding then I really believe the answere is for Drum & Bugle Corps to go back to it's roots of the Community based marching unit.

see this won't work either. Local organizations can't put up the cash to fund a drum corps when they are trying desperately to keep their shelter and food bank running. The churches don't have it. The Boy Scouts don't have it. It's called money and there's not enough of it to start a drum corps.

[Fran Haring]

see this won't work either. Local organizations can't put up the cash to fund a drum corps when they are trying desperately to keep their shelter and food bank running. The churches don't have it. The Boy Scouts don't have it. It's called money and there's not enough of it to start a drum corps.

Good point, Tom.

Here in Baltimore, for example, the local Catholic schools are hanging on for dear life.... the diocese has closed a number of them in a consolidation (meaning cost-saving) move.

Starting a local drum corps is an admirable goal.....but if I were an official with a Catholic church/school here in Baltimore, quite frankly that idea would be low on the priority list right now, to say the least.

[Stu]

There are no more local corps. I think that's part of the problem that th eoriginal poster is sad about.

It would be nice to see the activity return to it's roots by once again haveing Church Sopnsored, Boys and Girls Clubs sponsored, Police Sponsored.............Yes it's nice to see an ovet the top Drum & Bugle Corps that is over the top but as I see it soem of those "Top" Corps have lost touch with the community and fans. It could be argued that losing touch with their communities and destroyed many Drum Corps.

I know when Sky Ryders became a Corps that only had 6 participants from Hutchinson, KS, maybe 6 or so others from other parts of Kansas and the rest from outside Kansas, is when the Corps Board of Directors felt the Corps had lost community support and as a result their bingo revenue and the Corps folded then reemerged in Texas and then faded away.

I believe if the Sky Ryders could have maintained ties to Kansas by recruiting mainly in Kansas then the citizens of Kansas would have supported the Corps it maybe Sky Ryders would still be competing. Why not, all the other Kansas Corps where already gone so Sky Ryders had the entire state to themselves.

Yes, I would say Junior Drum Corps has lost it's soul and that's why there are so few today.

If the Economy continues to kill peoples finances and year round school keep expanding then I really believe the answere is for Drum & Bugle Corps to go back to it's roots of the Community based marching unit.

This falls into the category that we can turn a cucumber into a pickle, but we cannot turn a pickle back into a cucumber. The Kansas public, as well as potential youth marching members in the State, have already been exposed to the best, most competitive, highly qualitative marching ensembles in the entire world. To look into reverting the drum corps activity back to the local Church Sopnsored, local Boys and Girls Clubs sponsored, local Police Sponsored parade units that do some local field shows with the community sitting around in their lawn chairs sipping lemonade is like attempting to convince these pepole to go back to watching black and white TV with only three broadcast channels. Maybe this will happen on a smal scale like the SDCA is attempting to accomplish, but it is not going to happen with the overwhelming multitude of youth who want to march at the DCI level! So, unless a group like Prarie Sound can offer that same high quality performance and instructional experience, many of the youth in Kansas are going to continue going over a few States to Regiment, Scouts, Colts, and Blue Knights. Especially since the advent of easy state to state transportation.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Stu