Corps Directors

[tomgolf8]

You're right, I was just a member of 2 corps.

That's great. It also wasn't meant as a dig on you.

What I am saying is: Get involved in a staff position. Doesn't matter what it is, drill tech, horn tech, waterboy / girl, anything. After being involved for a while, ask for more to do. You will see what it takes to run a Corps from the inside then get back to us. Your eyes will be opened.

People are not put in charge of these million dollar clubs for no reason. they have experience and they are qualified. They have worked very hard for years to earn that knowledge. Not everyone is successful.. You have to be a cross between businessman, salesman, guidence councilor, paramedic, mechanic and magician. Your hobbies MUST include enjoying sleepless nights alone and with staff, being #####ed at by everyone about everything you do, and giving everything you have knowing it will be appreciated by some, expected by many and acknowledged few. This is the life of a Corps Director ( I need to turn that into a tshirt).

That's probably why you don't see a line of applicants around the corner every time there is an opening.

Edited September 9, 2010 by tomgolf8

[AlexL]

What I am saying is: Get involved in a staff position. Doesn't matter what it is, drill tech, horn tech, waterboy / girl, anything. After being involved for a while, ask for more to do. You will see what it takes to run a Corps from the inside then get back to us. Your eyes will be opened.

I will agree with this. I marched 2 and then spent one year on the tour admin side of things... you never realize just how much goes on behind the scenes while youre marching until you're off the field and see the tour from the other side.

[Blaritone]

can we get an admin in here to shut this thread down? this is going nowhere and its ten posts away from just turning into a giant racist argument from both sides.

[tomgolf8]

can we get an admin in here to shut this thread down? this is going nowhere and its ten posts away from just turning into a giant racist argument from both sides.

I don't see this as anyone touting racism. A question was asked, it was backed up by demographics and then debated. I have seen nothing to suggest that anyone on this thread saying that anyone's inability to run a corps based on race, sex, religion or anything else. It's purely based on the ability to do the job, the need of a Corps and a desire of someone to fill that position.

I would be interested to know how you see it differently.

[garfield]

can we get an admin in here to shut this thread down? this is going nowhere and its ten posts away from just turning into a giant racist argument from both sides.

Agree. This thing should have bee shut down after the first 5 or so posts.

Be done with it please.

[skywhopper]

can we get an admin in here to shut this thread down? this is going nowhere and its ten posts away from just turning into a giant racist argument from both sides.

I've found this thread to be pretty productive, and when people can hold themselves back from being snarky, I think we are making progress. I really don't think we help anything by shutting down threads like this. It's important to talk about it, and not to be afraid of discussing the reality of the situation. If particular posters are pushing the limits of propriety, I think that's best taken up with those individuals.

[Big Bad Bari]

Absolutely true! Great directors often start out as instructors who practically give themselves away in order to get a foot in the door. The perseverance gained in invaluable to future aspirations. (Aspirations is my new word of the day...I've used it twice in the past few minutes. It's fun to say and if you utter it with a smirk, it kind of sounds dirty.)

What does instructing in a drum corps have to do with being a corps director? An expert instructor doesn't necessarily know anything about directing a corps. Perhaps this line of thinking is why the activity is shrinking. Just because someone is dedicated and is a great instructor has nothing to do with their ability to run, market and manage a corps. Is the same true in reverse? Would a great corps director make a great instructor? I see these 2 roles, as 2 completely different roles. So why do corps think this way?

You didn't address his entire post. The instructor gives himself to the corps LEARNING HOW TO BE AN ADMINISTRATOR WHILE TEACHING. That's how you learn, by doing. If you are teach a corps and ask to help on the administrative side, more than likely you will get the chance. As you prove yourself and are willing to take on more responsibility, you will gain more knowledge. As time goes on, you will have learned the administrative side while teaching and now you can do both.

As a former Corps Director, I encouraged my staff to learn the business side so I coul turn it over to someone. But it has to be someone that can do it and is willing.

There are people out there that will kill themselves for the good of the organization. The put their blood, seat, tears, money, marriages everything they have at risk for the good of the organization. To minimalize it by saying "Being an instructor has nothing to do with running a corps" is a little short sided. The staff is generally involved with the operation of the corps at some level. And in a lt of cases are involved in it by neccesity. They don't just tech the second mello section during brass arch and leave.

Do you have any experience at all in how a drum corps is actually run or were you just a member. I'm pretty sure I know the answer just by looking at your posts.

You're right, I was just a member of 2 corps.

Absolutely! It helps tremendously to crawl before walking, and as such, being a corps instructor gives someone the inside glimpse of how corps are run, insights that might not have been gleamed as a marcher alone. There's a big difference between directing people and being directed.

Dave Gibbs is the Director of the Blue Devils, arguably the strongest organization in DCI... He was the Drum Major in 1979 and 1980... He was our drill tech in 1981 and 1982... He moved to the guard and design team in 1983 and later after learning the ropes became the director... I think this is EXACTLY what Michael was talking about!

[skywhopper]

Just to sum up what i have read so far:

We need to lower dues so we can have more minorities as Corps Directors. Did I miss anything?

How about giving the posters you disagree with a little more benefit of the doubt? Just because you disagree with some of the ideas being discussed doesn't mean you need to dismiss them by implying they are naive and simple-minded. Too-high dues may exclude lots of people of all sexes and colors.

People are not put in charge of these million dollar clubs for no reason. they have experience and they are qualified. They have worked very hard for years to earn that knowledge.

I don't think anyone is suggesting to put unqualified people in charge of corps. Are you suggesting that there are no people capable of running corps who are not currently directors?

In any case, the problem (if you agree there is one) is more complicated than just the director level. My opinion is that if demographics of the leadership and senior staff doesn't match that of the corps, or isn't trending that way, then something is wrong. A fair system would not, balanced over time, produce senior staff that is whiter and maler than the membership. I feel like multiple people on here are saying "just try harder, if you want it so bad". We're not talking about individuals here. Any particular individual who sets his or her sights on being a corps director is likely to fail. But if you look at the demographics across the entire activity, the trend ought to be towards matching the diversity of the membership. If that isn't happening, we need to try to figure out why it isn't, and not just throw our hands up and blame the people who aren't in charge for not trying hard enough.

[garfield]

How about giving the posters you disagree with a little more benefit of the doubt? Just because you disagree with some of the ideas being discussed doesn't mean you need to dismiss them by implying they are naive and simple-minded. Too-high dues may exclude lots of people of all sexes and colors.

I don't think anyone is suggesting to put unqualified people in charge of corps. Are you suggesting that there are no people capable of running corps who are not currently directors?

In any case, the problem (if you agree there is one) is more complicated than just the director level. My opinion is that if demographics of the leadership and senior staff doesn't match that of the corps, or isn't trending that way, then something is wrong. A fair system would not, balanced over time, produce senior staff that is whiter and maler than the membership. I feel like multiple people on here are saying "just try harder, if you want it so bad". We're not talking about individuals here. Any particular individual who sets his or her sights on being a corps director is likely to fail. But if you look at the demographics across the entire activity, the trend ought to be towards matching the diversity of the membership. If that isn't happening, we need to try to figure out why it isn't, and not just throw our hands up and blame the people who aren't in charge for not trying hard enough.

Skywopper, I appreciate what you're trying to do, really. But there is not bias, there has never been a bias, it's unlikely there will be a bias. Cutting fees to help minorities is a fine idea, except that it will mean less income for the activity and the corps. How much diversity is enough when corps are shutting down because they can't afford to operate now, let alone with a fee cut? Instead of cutting fees, why not eliminate them entirely? What is the appropriate fee cut to balance income and diversity?

Marketing to minorities is fine, and maybe it should be a part of the marketing program at DCI because it will renew one of the roots of the activity that was so impactful on society when it was born. But that's a completely different sentiment than suggesting that DCI isn't diverse enough, as if there is some intentional, systemic wall intentionally instituted by current drum corps to exclude minorities.

That's what I disagree with.

Edited September 9, 2010 by garfield

[skywhopper]

I don't want to keep belaboring the point, but I just wanted to be clear about my arguments. I think there are ways in which the existing structure of an activity or organization can create unintentional barriers based on race and sex. I don't think drum corps has a bias problem. I think drum corps, at least for members, is a great example of being exceptionally open to anyone who's interested. But in lots of areas in life, cultural differences, the type of friendships people form, personality differences, differences in manners, etc which are for whatever reason correlated to sex and race, all have an impact on levels of promotion and success that tend to preserve existing patterns. I don't think drum corps is immune to those effects, and I don't think it can be fully fair if we're satisfied with being free of intentional bias.