Corps Moving back to "G" Horns

[fleurghost]

Stu if you take a second to READ posts you would know that that was in DIRECT response to individuals stating that crown provides affordable instruments to high schools so what is the LOSS there.

THE RESPONSE was IT'S CHEAPER to buy a NEW horn (almost $400 cheaper) than to buy that USED horn from CROWN!

What you are trying to imply is that all high schools should exists and buy instruments to support Crown.

Yeah right!

Crown needs to keep their horn for 5-10 years (since they are professional individuals you can take care of horns) and reduce their fees to make it more accessible. I mean after all since they have sooo much money and such a HUGH company, why not take the BD model and have Crown Cadets?

And again to help clarify for YOU.....

Would you rather purchase...

A USED horn for $1275

or

A NEW horn at $880

G horns would not help Crown at all in securing funds each year through resale to various schools, and there are no high school or college ensembles which would purchase those G horns. Does that clarify for (you)?

[84BDsop]

That is one of the, if not the most arrogant condescending remarks I have ever read about non-brass musicians, professors, and students. Your point is that unless you have played a brass instrument to know how great they are you are flat stupid; I wonder if Al Chez also believes in that statement?

No.....it's not. Having a good quality horn to play on doesn't equate to actually PLAYING that horn well, especially with a young high school player who might be new to instruments.

Having a Pearl snare from BD's 2010 line will not instantly make be a snare player at ANY level beyond late 70s high school. Having a top quality rifle from BD's 2010 guard will NOT instantly make it possible for me to throw a 9 and catch it cleanly. (Oh, I might get the height and rotation, but the moment it left my hands it would become a deadly weapon...it certainly wouldn't go straight up!)

People DO sometimes buy into the thought that it's all about the horn/drum and that they have quasi-magical powers that will make you sound exactly like the corps that sold them off....that's true for ANY marketing...that's exactly how celeb endorsements work. I can buy the exact same fencing gear used by Mariel Zagunis -- 2 time Olympic gold medalist in sabre (hell, I sell the gear for a living....I can get it at a discount!) and someone who won #### near EVERYthing possible to win before her freshman year at Notre Dame -- but even though I'm a sabre fencer myself AND a sabre instructor, that gear's not gonna make me able to win even a local tournament....it takes proper instruction, technique, and a lot of sweat equity to do so.

Same for playing music.

Edited September 22, 2010 by 84BDsop

[84BDsop]

And most of the people my generation and younger don't even realize that drum corps played in a different key, or even understand the concept of less than three valves.

That was true in 2004 when I played with other BD alums at Jerry Seawright's memorial at the bingo hall on my 2-valved K-20. (same model I played in BD) One of the A corps guard guys stared at it and could not believe EVERY corps played on similar horns up through the early 90s...he'd never seen one.

In any regard, G or Bb, it does not matter. I've played on some absolutely terrible Bb instruments. My G contra plays amazingly well. These theories that G bugles are harder to play and impossible to tune are merely hearsay, in my opinion. In these days of "Tune Any Note" tuning slides and advanced designs, the only major difference between the basic bugles (Sop, Mello, Bari, Contra) and any-key marching brass families is the length of the tubing.

Indeed....all a soprano is is a trumpet in the key of G..we just attach a different name to it to differentiate our activity from the regular marching band world (at least we did before 2000)

As my former tuba professor once told me, "The horn is just a megaphone for your lips. It doesn't matter how good or bad of a horn you have. If you can play... it will play."

I HAVE to remember that one....SOOOOOOOOOOOOO true!

*although I WILL assert that a really poorly designed and constructed horn would give any pro difficulty*

[kevingamin]

A good craftsmen never blames his tools.

[Stu]

What you are trying to imply is that all high schools should exists and buy instruments to support Crown.

So that I am not implying anything let me say this outright: There is nothing wrong with schools buying the Crown horns because they are Bb (which they need) because the horns are of high quality (which they need) and the horns are discounted from new retail (which they need). Besides, it is a great recruiting tool for schools to tell their students that they will be playing on horns that just appeared at the DCI Finals!!!!

Crown needs to keep their horn for 5-10 years (since they are professional individuals you can take care of horns) and reduce their fees to make it more accessible. I mean after all since they have sooo much money and such a HUGH company, why not take the BD model and have Crown Cadets?

Crown does "not" have sooo much money and they are not that "huge" of a company. They need year-to-year operational capital to survive. So, there is nothing wrong in Crown making as much profit as they can off of the resale of their horns each year. In fact, keeping horns as you suggested would actually cause the performer fees to rise due to the loss in revenue from the year-to-year resale of instruments which brings in profit. If you could purchase a new car every year for $12k and sell it the next year for $15k (yielding a $3k profit each year) it would be prudent for you to buy a new car each year and sell the older one. This is about good business sense, not about keeping horns for five years.

THE RESPONSE was IT'S CHEAPER to buy a NEW horn (almost $400 cheaper) than to buy that USED horn from CROWN!

Would you rather purchase...

A USED horn for $1275

or

A NEW horn at $880

Answer: I would rather purchase a high quality used Bb for $1275 over a high quality new G for $880 and here is why: While the initial up-front cost is higher, the "overall" benefits are also greater (i.e. finding someone who already knows how to play a Bb is more likely to happen; Corps owned instruments could stay in storage in between camps while the students use their own horns to practice at home; the resale value of the Bb will not go down as much as a G; etc...).

[Blackstar]

I came into this very late and I read that many people are talking about resale. Almost everyone mentioned HS Bands. But what about the overseas market. What do European corps use? Or even Asian and African corps that are coming up?

[Stu]

People DO sometimes buy into the thought that it's all about the horn/drum and that they have quasi-magical powers that will make you sound exactly like the corps that sold them off....that's true for ANY marketing...that's exactly how celeb endorsements work.

And the problem is..........with the person that hold the belief not the company marketing of the product. No sales, no horns, no marketing, no sales, and horn companies will file bankruptcy; simple as that. So if some people think that Yamaha will allow them to play better I say Yamaha should go for that sale; they will make a profit and survive another day to make more high quality horns! And if Michael Jordan can make a profit off of endorsing Nike shoes what the h*** is wrong with that? This is why many corps fail and many band programs run in the red; they do not run their operations as a business.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Stu

[84BDsop]

I came into this very late and I read that many people are talking about resale. Almost everyone mentioned HS Bands. But what about the overseas market. What do European corps use? Or even Asian and African corps that are coming up?

I suspect Bb might be the way they're going...simply because of the greater availability of used Bbs vs used Gs (never mind new inventory). Even in 1986, Bb was on the field in DCUK competition....Thurrock Marching Brass was Bb (3rd place that year), while Dagenham Crusaders were 2 valved Gs (don't remember what Conquest Alliance used, but I'm pretty sure they were Gs)

[HornsUp]

There are a thousand HS bands for every corps selling horns. That means 999 of them can't get a deal.

Edited September 22, 2010 by HornsUp

[wilkituba]

As a small high school director with a small budget, I can get two Yamaha marching baritones from Crossmen for less than half price (which I did last year) to replace my 25 year old Kings with dents galore and crooked leadpipes. Crossmen used them for a year or two and were in great shape, only one dent in one of them. I'll use them for 10-15 years. Corps selling instruments, equipment, and uniforms can really help out schools like mine on a tight budget that's tire of playing on junk.

For a new drum corps starting out, or an open class corps looking to replace old horns, getting a year old instrument could cut down on start up cost or get another horn or two for the hornline, cheap. They can sell them to a school like mine and I could get 10 years out of them, once the dents are out.