Corps Moving back to "G" Horns

[fsubone]

One of the reasons given for going to Bb was the DCI season is shorter and members didn't have the time they had in the past to adjust their ears to playing in G. Another reason given was resale value which is being discussed. Another reason was this allowed the NEW startup corps members to bring their own instruments so start up costs would be cheaper. Don't believe this idea panned out as planned.

Just wondering... what era recordings are you listening to?

All of them. my iPod is full of recordings from every era of DCI. I have recordings spanning from the 1972 Kingsmen and SCV all the way to last year's Finals Recordings. I'm a drum corps nerd, my iPod is full of old shows.

And with the Bb thing, it does make it easier when I could practice for auditions of the same instrument I'd audition on, without having to switch keys or anything. (I'm a trombone player in real life, played euphonium in corps)

[84BDsop]

Ding, ding someone really got to the crux of Kanstul at their prices vs deals other manufacturers are giving some corps. With cost of running a corps today, why buy expensive when cheaper will also do the job?

Which brings up a point....what ARE the prices for Dynasty Gs?? I've never found them, so I can't do a true price comparison between the 2.

[84BDsop]

And with the Bb thing, it does make it easier when I could practice for auditions of the same instrument I'd audition on, without having to switch keys or anything. (I'm a trombone player in real life, played euphonium in corps)

I auditioned on my Bb...got the music, and between the November audition and the January move up, I taped the 3rd valve down....put my trumpet in G (or close to it).

I'll give that you couldn't do that with a T-bone.

As for intonation Bb vs G....listen to 2000 Cadets....going into the company front....horrid intonation....from a top corps....on Bb horns.

I defy anyone to be able to tell the difference between a line on Kanstul Bb and then on Kanstul G...same people, same music, same quality horn. If there are intonation issues, they'd be with player technique, not with the horn.

Also, playing technique overall has changed in corps since back in the day....in the 80s there was plenty of balls-to-the-wall playing that lent itself to poor intonation, regardless of the skill of the line. The more restrained playing of today that irks so many old-schoolers yearning for the parting-what's-left-of-their-hair days generally produces an better sound because there's less over-blowing of the instrument.

That's a playing technique issue, not a brass design and construction one.

Edited September 26, 2010 by 84BDsop

[fsubone]

I auditioned on my Bb...got the music, and between the November audition and the January move up, I taped the 3rd valve down....put my trumpet in G (or close to it).

I'll give that you couldn't do that with a T-bone.

As for intonation Bb vs G....listen to 2000 Cadets....going into the company front....horrid intonation....from a top corps....on Bb horns.

I defy anyone to be able to tell the difference between a line on Kanstul Bb and then on Kanstul G...same people, same music, same quality horn. If there are intonation issues, they'd be with player technique, not with the horn.

Also, playing technique overall has changed in corps since back in the day....in the 80s there was plenty of balls-to-the-wall playing that lent itself to poor intonation, regardless of the skill of the line. The more restrained playing of today that irks so many old-schoolers yearning for the parting-what's-left-of-their-hair days generally produces an better sound because there's less over-blowing of the instrument.

That's a playing technique issue, not a brass design and construction one.

yeah, can't really tape a valve down on a trombone....

And I'll give you the examples of bad intonation on Bb, but as a whole, I think that it has improved. Most of it I think is player technique, just like you said. People bemoan the lack of volume from some of today's corps, but I never see lack of musicality come up. When you don't need to transition an instrument, and teach the kids a whole new system, you can spend more time working on making the music sound as good as it can. And I do love the balls-to-the-wall playing of the old days on G, but I also enjoy playing and listening to modern corps stuff more. Just my take on it.

[fsubone]

Which brings up a point....what ARE the prices for Dynasty Gs?? I've never found them, so I can't do a true price comparison between the 2.

i'm not sure if Dynasty even produces G horns anymore, so someone looking for them would have to trawl eBay, or be like one of the students I'm teaching, get an old D.E.G bari from your dad.

[Brad T.]

Dynasty Bugles

Looks like they only make four models anymore. They used to make a lot more, including a 4 valve contra.

[JimF-LowBari]

All of them. my iPod is full of recordings from every era of DCI. I have recordings spanning from the 1972 Kingsmen and SCV all the way to last year's Finals Recordings. I'm a drum corps nerd, my iPod is full of old shows.

Cool, I'm older so have stuff going back to 1950. Having played piston/rotor in the 70s I feel comfortible in saying the difference between then and now has very little to do with key and everything to do with horn construction. I call them "modified Army signaling devices" only half in jest. So when someone tries to say the difference is key for anything before 1980, I'm like ->

And with the Bb thing, it does make it easier when I could practice for auditions of the same instrument I'd audition on, without having to switch keys or anything. (I'm a trombone player in real life, played euphonium in corps)

Ex-trombone player too and read fingerings for two years until I got comfortable with sight reading without them. And never had to audition as corps I joined needed warm bodies.....

[JimF-LowBari]

Also, playing technique overall has changed in corps since back in the day....in the 80s there was plenty of balls-to-the-wall playing that lent itself to poor intonation, regardless of the skill of the line. The more restrained playing of today that irks so many old-schoolers yearning for the parting-what's-left-of-their-hair days generally produces an better sound because there's less over-blowing of the instrument.

Agreed, we (Westshoremen Sr corps) had a lot of younger people and had HS band directors working with the horn line. We went for the more musical approach for the era and usually got screamed at if we played too loud and lost intonation. For us playing with the rest of the corps and not "blatting" was more important than being louder than other corps.

Have had the chance to hear late 70s/early 80s Finals for both circuits for the first time in years and now picking out horns sticking out with bad tone on the final chords. Yeah.... I can admit it was done then.... and it sounded like crap...

Edited September 27, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[84BDsop]

Dynasty Bugles

Looks like they only make four models anymore. They used to make a lot more, including a 4 valve contra.

Yes....but they don't list pricing....that's what I'm shooting for.

[fsubone]

Cool, I'm older so have stuff going back to 1950. Having played piston/rotor in the 70s I feel comfortible in saying the difference between then and now has very little to do with key and everything to do with horn construction. I call them "modified Army signaling devices" only half in jest. So when someone tries to say the difference is key for anything before 1980, I'm like ->

Ex-trombone player too and read fingerings for two years until I got comfortable with sight reading without them. And never had to audition as corps I joined needed warm bodies.....

Haha, even I know they were in the same key, just built different, and I wasn't even born yet. And I've messed around with a piston/rotor horn once, it sure was funky.

Yeah, I started out playing euphonium originally, then went to trombone, now only play euphonium for corps. So I knew the fingerings, in Bb of course, for auditions.