Need some advice

[Stu]

I have no idea how BD runs their organization and I haven't seen the documentary you're talking about. If the "win or the season is a complete failure" mentality is actually what they have then that is sad. If it's just some kids being disappointed that they didn't win then that is only natural and comes with competition. It is entirely possible to be disappointed in the competitive aspect of a season and not consider the entire season to be a failure. However, you seem to be extrapolating what you have seen in a documentary put out by BD to hold true for all the successful corps.

I didn't say that I have won a lot, I said I marched in a corps that has won a lot. I myself only have only won once.

> "If the 'win or the season is a complete failure' mentality is actually what they have then that is sad."

Why is that sad???? It is the reason that the Yankees have the most World Series Titles and the reason that BD has the most DCI Titles. Disappointment from "not" winning the gold is what motivates some to win quite often; and to me that is not sad but just a philosophical choice. Whether or not you realize this, your "sad" comment actually supports my trade-off categories. You personally fall into the second philosophy category that winning is "not" the most important thing and also marched with various corps' that also had that philosophy. Good for you!!! But also good for those who chose the Devils to Win but are devastated when they lose!!! The sad part develops when a person with one philosophy marches with a corps that has a different philosophy; nobody is satisfied in that situation.

[dbc03]

> "If the 'win or the season is a complete failure' mentality is actually what they have then that is sad."

Why is that sad???? It is the reason that the Yankees have the most World Series Titles and the reason that BD has the most DCI Titles. Disappointment from "not" winning the gold is what motivates some to win quite often; and to me that is not sad but just a philosophical choice. Whether or not you realize this, your "sad" comment actually supports my trade-off categories. You personally fall into the second philosophy category that winning is "not" the most important thing and also marched with various corps' that also had that philosophy. Good for you!!! But also good for those who chose the Devils to Win but are devastated when they lose!!! The sad part develops when a person with one philosophy marches with a corps that has a different philosophy; nobody is satisfied in that situation.

Sad because if as a corps you promote the idea that winning is all that matters, even if you are as successful as the Blue Devils you are only going to win maybe 40% of the time. So most years are going to be considered complete failures. If BD's only goal is winning then I would say as an organization they are a failure because they aren't even achieving that goal 50% of the time. I'm not sure that I buy that that is BD's only goal though or that they consider any year that they don't win to be a failure.

[wcmello09]

> "If the 'win or the season is a complete failure' mentality is actually what they have then that is sad."

Why is that sad???? It is the reason that the Yankees have the most World Series Titles and the reason that BD has the most DCI Titles. Disappointment from "not" winning the gold is what motivates some to win quite often; and to me that is not sad but just a philosophical choice. Whether or not you realize this, your "sad" comment actually supports my trade-off categories. You personally fall into the second philosophy category that winning is "not" the most important thing and also marched with various corps' that also had that philosophy. Good for you!!! But also good for those who chose the Devils to Win but are devastated when they lose!!! The sad part develops when a person with one philosophy marches with a corps that has a different philosophy; nobody is satisfied in that situation.

dont the yankees usually buy their teams?

[bluestarsrok]

You say "ringchaser" like it is a bad thing. I don't understand why people think it is bad to want to win. Often times i see the same people who refer to people as "ringchasers" in a negative light turn right around and complain about how their corps is not finishing / scoring higher. To me that makes no sense.

I think "ringchasing" has hurt drum corps. The reason is that if someone wants to join BD or Cavies, and they don't make it, a LOT of the time they don't MARCH AT ALL. That doesn't help the other corps or the activity.........

[Jeff Ream]

ok, so BD's success rate if championships are what people want to go off of is 30 % from 73-00.

the Yankees is 25% from 1901-2010.

so, IMO, BD is 5% more successful than the Yankees

[Jeff Ream]

I think "ringchasing" has hurt drum corps. The reason is that if someone wants to join BD or Cavies, and they don't make it, a LOT of the time they don't MARCH AT ALL. That doesn't help the other corps or the activity.........

it's not always about the rings. For some kids, that's THEIR corps...they bleed green or blue. For some it's because they have alum from there teaching them. for some it's close. for some it's because of staff.

[Stu]

Sad because if as a corps you promote the idea that winning is all that matters, even if you are as successful as the Blue Devils you are only going to win maybe 40% of the time. So most years are going to be considered complete failures. If BD's only goal is winning then I would say as an organization they are a failure because they aren't even achieving that goal 50% of the time. I'm not sure that I buy that that is BD's only goal though or that they consider any year that they don't win to be a failure.

Without getting tied up with semantics, failing to reach a primary goal and outright complete failure are two vastly different issues. The goal of the MLB Yankees, NASCAR Jimmy Johnson, or the DCI Blue Devils is to Win. If they take second, what they call the first loser, while they are devastated because they have failed to reach the goal of winning, they have not utterly and completely failed overall. Complete failure would be the destruction and folding of the organization. Check out the strike-out record (not the home-run record but the strike-out record) for Babe Ruth and you will see that he personally had the philosophy that I am saying occurs with winners. I will guarantee you that nobody on the 2010 Yankees was satisfied when they lost the ALC to the Texas Rangers, and I will also guarantee that nobody on the 2008 Devils was satisfied deep down when they got beat by Regiment. That disappointment at losing is what it takes to for an organization to win the most championships; and that is “not” sad as long as you have the same philosophy as the organization.

[Stu]

I think "ringchasing" has hurt drum corps. The reason is that if someone wants to join BD or Cavies, and they don't make it, a LOT of the time they don't MARCH AT ALL. That doesn't help the other corps or the activity.........

> "I think "ringchasing" has hurt drum corps."

If winning is not important, then why keep score? Ring chasing, as you put it, has increased the quality of the highly competitive corps' who go after the ring; there is no valid argument against that aspect. However, if you mean that ring chasing has hurt the activity by driving out many of the non-winning corps' then to solve that problem DCI should just eliminate the competitive scoring and quit calling this a Major League.

> "...if someone wants to join BD or Cavies, and they don't make it, a LOT of the time they don't MARCH AT ALL."

That is because it is an individual choice, usually based on the same high cost to march the lower level corps (but I digress). The other alternatives to fill out "all" corps' memberships would be: 1) Strict Draft; 2) Strict Lottery System; 3) A single audition is designed for every corps and you are forced to go where placed; or 4) Only allowing completely altruistic youth to join drum corps. While these would equalize the playing field by increasing participation with lower level corps', it would also have the unintended consequence of lowering the performance quality standards of the corps' winning the gold.

[roosevelt]

I think "ringchasing" has hurt drum corps. The reason is that if someone wants to join BD or Cavies, and they don't make it, a LOT of the time they don't MARCH AT ALL. That doesn't help the other corps or the activity.........

Maybe, but I can tell you that most if not all of those corps at the top encourage kids who don't make it to march somewhere else to get experience. I honestly believe that kids who have never marched that audition for the top tier groups do so not because they want to win, but because they want to be in that specific corps. I do know what you are saying though about kids who only want to march in the one corps and will not even consider another place. It is kind of silly, but it is also their choice and they are free to make it.

[DrillmanSop06]

Maybe, but I can tell you that most if not all of those corps at the top encourage kids who don't make it to march somewhere else to get experience. I honestly believe that kids who have never marched that audition for the top tier groups do so not because they want to win, but because they want to be in that specific corps. I do know what you are saying though about kids who only want to march in the one corps and will not even consider another place. It is kind of silly, but it is also their choice and they are free to make it.

They desire that pride - and it is a glowing pride. Dreams are dreams. It is a fact that more kids dream of donning a Regiment helmet than, say, a Teal Sound shako. There is a deep sense of pride that comes with associating oneself with such success.