If VFW had allowed change....

[JimF-LowBari]

Well as a present to everyone have something to mull around over the Holiday period (yeah I'm cheap frugal as this is free).... Got the idea from another thread and thought this would be a good mind bender. Also like the idea of alternate universes (thank you Marvel comics) so here goes.

One of the reasons that the Combine, later DCI got together was the way the VFW judged and paid the particpating corps. The judging was heavy on military being and very low on GE. Great examples in Madison having to do their Alice In Wonderland show straight with no "extras" like characters or non-marching steps. The pay for the corps was low, expecially for the non-top corps. And well let's face it, VFW Championships was really one of many things for the VFW members to watch and not THE event of the convention. (YEAH, VFWs business really had nothing to do with Drum Corps.)

So if VFW had compromised on being more GE friendly and freer with the $$$$ what do you think might have happened in the Jr corps world? Would DCI have come into existance, would the lack (or delay) of something like DCI changed what is going on in the Jr corps world today?

Note from a Sr side guy: The idea of DCI breaking away from the VFW was not a new idea. Actaully DCI got help from another group of corps (DCA) that broke away from the same problem they had with their veterans organization (AL) a few years earlier.

[Michael Boo]

What if?

In case someone missed my August 27, 2010 article, here is the opening words of the above link.

Earlier on Thursday it was brought to my attention that the Veterans of Foreign Wars held its national convention in Indianapolis this week, Aug. 21-26.

For those of you who have an historical perspective: If drum corps had stayed under the auspices of the VFW way back in the day, Thursday would likely be the Prelims and Friday night the Finals for the VFW National Championships.

It’s a fascinating thought: What might the drum corps activity be like if it had stayed with the VFW (and also with the American Legion)?

Click on link to read more.

[JimF-LowBari]

Hey I miss very little Mike and I did see it.... However I also forget a lot and totally forgot it.

Great ideas and background, here's some other stuff for folks to think about since I think there is some confusion regarding VFW/AL sponsorships of corps.

Unless I'm mistaken:

The National VFW and AL organizations only sponsored the "Nationals" show at each annual convention and nothing else related to Drum Corps.

Some District VFW(?) and AL groups did sponsor shows.

Some State AL and VFW groups sponsored a show to determine State Sr/Jr Champs. Some even had catagory of best parade corps (at least PA did), best drill team, band, etc, etc.

The only AL or VFW organizations that sponsored the corps themselves were the individual Posts.

VFW dropped Sr Championships in the early 60s and Jrs in early 80s.

AL dropped out totally after 1980 until they piggy-backed with DCA in the late 1990s/

Mention it because some folks here think that the National AL and VFW were deep in the "Drum Corps business" and it was the Posts that were really involved in running corps.

[Hrothgar15]

And a more modern twist on the question, what if DCI never ket any key pass in 1999? Would we still have amps and electronics? My guess is no, since switching to band instruments opened the floodgate to switching other elements to band.

[JonW]

I too have wondered... not so much all the VFW/AL stuff, but the military connection itself and drum corps.

Would crowds have dwindled or swelled if a military aspect had been retained?

Would membership have dwindled or swelled if a military aspect had been retained?

It's pretty clear that individuals within the VFW/AL booched the program, but we are a proud and patriotic country - would that have made a difference?

[glory]

My take is drum corps still would have had to find an alternative to survive. Veterans organizations were losing their impact as the WWII generation moved from middle age to senior status. Tying drum corps' future to VFW or any other veterans group no longer was a sustainable vision in the 70s.

HH

[audiodb]

So if VFW had compromised on being more GE friendly and freer with the $$$$ what do you think might have happened in the Jr corps world? Would DCI have come into existance, would the lack (or delay) of something like DCI changed what is going on in the Jr corps world today?

Well, if you phrase the question that way....I think it wouldn't have made much difference. Most of the things the top corps complained about were available from other sources. There were other national/world championship contests like World Open, U.S. Open, etc., that had better money, better locations, better judging and the ability to convene a rules congress of their own. But there was one remaining thing the top corps wanted that they couldn't get from anyone else....control.

Perhaps a more responsive VFW/AL might have delayed the formation of DCI another year or two.

[GUARDLING]

Personally and it's only my opinion Coming from a drum corps family way before DCI and to this day in many aspects of the activity I don't think a thing would have changed. Like now ,corps want total control of their own destiny.

I believe even if GE and money were looser corps still would have opted for the NEW and control.

[JimF-LowBari]

My take is drum corps still would have had to find an alternative to survive. Veterans organizations were losing their impact as the WWII generation moved from middle age to senior status. Tying drum corps' future to VFW or any other veterans group no longer was a sustainable vision in the 70s.

HH

Yep, that's another piece of the pie that I missed. And shame on me since I've mentioned it enough times.

And to Hrothgar15.... good question as that ties into time to prepare members ears in a shorter camp period and the $$$$ that some corps get when they sell the "old" stuff.

Can argue with audiodb either as delay would be my guess. Interesting as I just read some of the articles when the World Open was created thanks to NanciDs history blog. Interesting that the Sr portion was dropped there too.

[Hup234]

It's fun to 'what-if', but I think the wanna-be 'artistes' within the activity then were drooling to worm their way into a leadership role and thence mold the kids into some sort of the vision they had always harbored of "show-biz legitimacy" and dreams of "respect as an artform" from those they were hoping would include them into the professional and quasi-professional arts community.

I recall those days; they'd be name-dropping all over the place for years if some established entertainment figure should happen upon the activity and rub elbows with them, and they'd forever be working towards getting a nod of approval from them.

And the Midwest Combine wasn't related at all to dreams of artistic freedom but was merely a power grab to screw over veterans-groups officials who didn't play along with the Combine leaders' huge egos and genuflect when the Combine guys would walk into meetings with their big cigars and matching brass-buttoned blazers.

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It isn't "all about the kids", it's about all the kids."