3rd Glasgow BB Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I would be curious to know how many spirit vets left for Phantom. or how many SCV prec vets have gone to Rockford. (Not to follow Gwaltney obviously, but I'm sure they'll want to march somewhere) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doylejd Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 or how many SCV prec vets have gone to Rockford. (Not to follow Gwaltney obviously, but I'm sure they'll want to march somewhere) Also with Murray Gusseck at Academy, there will likely be a few people to go out there. I remember a few cats who went to Capital Regiment in 2006 after marching Vanguard 2005. Instructor loyalty doesn't just follow Paul Rennick, this is a global trend in this activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) This is probably my dinoism getting in the way of me understanding current day membership philosophy, but corps loyalism used to mean something, at the very least it meant if you had a great attitude and held a spot the previous year you'd be considered first for a spot and given the nod. Loyalism, Great attitudes, and Local Recruitment are all fine, but they have never won Duke the NCAA Basketball title. It is the job of the Duke Basketball team to recruit the best of the best each year be competitive enough to win that title not to just maintain an educationally altruistic loyal base of kids with great attitudes; and since DCI has become such a highly competitive activity like NCAA Basketball, it is the job of SCV, Regiment, Devils, et al to be competitive enough to seek the title not to be altruistic. By the way, that is why the Devils have so many titles over the years; they audition and secure some of the best performers from around the world not just the local Concord kids with great loyal attitudes. Whether one agrees with that philosophy or not, it is what it is. Edited January 4, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 So, would you also agree that this belief of yours would also apply to when Rennick brought along most of his clan from Crown which displaced quite a few Regiment loyal vets? displaced or didn't earn their spots? Some people believe a vet automatically has a spot. That's just wrong. Just because someone marched with a corps last year, they should still earn the spot. They have distinct advantages over a rookie, but they still need to play. There should be no legacy spots guaranteed. This just leads to complacency over time. Not something drum corps is about...it's about excellence and excellence is attained by more than just "marching here last year." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 displaced or didn't earn their spots? Some people believe a vet automatically has a spot. That's just wrong. Just because someone marched with a corps last year, they should still earn the spot. They have distinct advantages over a rookie, but they still need to play. There should be no legacy spots guaranteed. This just leads to complacency over time. Not something drum corps is about...it's about excellence and excellence is attained by more than just "marching here last year." To be fair, though, that does engender a corresponding mercenary attitude from performers. If the corps isn't going to show loyalty, why should the marching member? Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 To be fair, though, that does engender a corresponding mercenary attitude from performers. If the corps isn't going to show loyalty, why should the marching member? Mike One could venture a guess, given the mass exodus from Phantom's drumline with Rennick leaving, that members (at least a good deal of them) don't. I do believe there are corps out there that still command enough loyalty for their members to not want to march anywhere else regardless of staff changes. With that said, as you imply this may decline if it becomes evident that their loyalty has no reward attached to it. I'm all for vets having to practice their ##### off in the off season, coming in more prepared than last year, having their #### wired tight, making every camp etc... but if they do these things, they shouldn't be replaced by someone who can play singles at 220 vs their 210, or has a year or two of the new instructors style under their belt. We need to remember the corps were talking about here, the disparity in talent between a 1st place drumline and an 8th or 9th place drumline is minimal at best (plenty of 6-12 corps members schooling 1-5 corps members at I&E every year) the difference is design, style, and the quality of the instructor. It will be very interesting to see how many if any SCV vets are given the nod over incoming Phantom vets. I would guess very little, and that's a shame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 To be fair, though, that does engender a corresponding mercenary attitude from performers. If the corps isn't going to show loyalty, why should the marching member? Mike Some members have not shown loyalty since I was first associated with drum corps as a volunteer in 1994. There was always at least one person in every section that was shopping another corps. We had one kid who paid up his past dues and then after camp wrote the director and said he got a spot with Cavies. He paid his past dues so the Regiment couldn't stop him from jumping ship. That was 1994. I am also sure corps show more loyalty than gets reported. It comes down to what each member has in his/her resume. It's like interviewing for a job as someone in the company versus someone outside the company. The nod should go to the insider...right? But, what if their performance isn't on par with the stuff on the new guys' resume? What if the insider has had some attendance issues? What if the new guy is a better fit? I've seen corps bend over backward in Rockford and Madison when a vet is displaced. Sometimes there's a need in another section. Sometimes a corps director can make a call to another director and get the kid an audition there. I believe in a director's mind the most important thing is the kid gets a chance to perform somewhere if they want to perform. But, a director also is charged with improving the product as well. Tough job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Some members have not shown loyalty since I was first associated with drum corps as a volunteer in 1994. There was always at least one person in every section that was shopping another corps. We had one kid who paid up his past dues and then after camp wrote the director and said he got a spot with Cavies. He paid his past dues so the Regiment couldn't stop him from jumping ship. That was 1994. I am also sure corps show more loyalty than gets reported. It comes down to what each member has in his/her resume. It's like interviewing for a job as someone in the company versus someone outside the company. The nod should go to the insider...right? But, what if their performance isn't on par with the stuff on the new guys' resume? What if the insider has had some attendance issues? What if the new guy is a better fit? I've seen corps bend over backward in Rockford and Madison when a vet is displaced. Sometimes there's a need in another section. Sometimes a corps director can make a call to another director and get the kid an audition there. I believe in a director's mind the most important thing is the kid gets a chance to perform somewhere if they want to perform. But, a director also is charged with improving the product as well. Tough job. Food for thought, if Rennick came to SCV without a single Phantom member, you'd still have an extremely high liklihood of an improved product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I'm all for vets having to practice their ##### off in the off season, coming in more prepared than last year, having their #### wired tight, making every camp etc... but if they do these things, they shouldn't be replaced by someone who can play singles at 220 vs their 210, or has a year or two of the new instructors style under their belt. We need to remember the corps were talking about here, the disparity in talent between a 1st place drumline and an 8th or 9th place drumline is minimal at best (plenty of 6-12 corps members schooling 1-5 corps members at I&E every year) the difference is design, style, and the quality of the instructor. It will be very interesting to see how many if any SCV vets are given the nod over incoming Phantom vets. I would guess very little, and that's a shame. Well stated. I do agree with both you and Tom; merely pointing out that it goes both ways between corps and members. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Food for thought, if Rennick came to SCV without a single Phantom member, you'd still have an extremely high likelihood of an improved product. But, you don't live in that country with those rules. It comes down to SCV wanting better now....no one wants to wait now. Stockholders want profits now. Better quarters now. Now now now. Is it right? Absolutely not. But, in this Sesame Street induced "give it to me quick" society now matters. As for the Sesame Street reference...it has long been a claim of educators that Sesame Street did as much harm as good by giving all those learning nuggets in 30 second chunks and shortening all our attention spans. SCV wants to get better percussion scores...they buy talent in Rennick. Kids who work with Rennick at UNT go where Rennick goes. By the way, former PR alum, Mark Eichenberger has been doing some heavy lifting teaching some great pit parts over the past few years at SCV. This UNLV grad is a very fine player and teacher. Wonder where he will be next year? The Rennick's come as a pair, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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