Shane Gwaltney

[BozzlyB]

Phantom's percussion didn't do well around 2001 and 2002 and hired Paul from Carolina Crown starting in 2003. Every returning snare vet did not make the line - and a new snare line of 9 seasoned corps vets from Carolina Crown and Spirit (from JSU at the time) - to name a few organizations - created the new snare line (a PR horn sergeant nicknamed them the "L.A. Lakers" of Snare Lines). The percussion program went from a 10th place finish under Brian Mason (I believe) in 2002 to a 5th place finish in 2003 under Paul. Paul's ethic has always been that the best player gets the spot, and he's even had to cut veterans if they couldn't maintain their potential.

SCV's percussion has not been performing well competitively since 2004, from what one of the posts had said. Paul has now taken over, and many veterans from the winning-PR percussion program have followed him, just as many drummers from the Carolina Crown and UNT organizations had done in 2003 to Phantom - so they can drum with the best and learn from the best ("best" in their minds, of course). There are some PR veterans who have chosen not to follow Paul because of personal reasons - however, from what I've heard from other veterans - there is not one veteran remaining with the PR percussion program under Shane Gwaltney. SCV's percussion program took a 10th place finish under Brian Mason in 2010, and we will see where it goes in 2011 under Paul.

We can always say that Loyalty is in the Eye of the Beholder?

I understand setting yourself up for success, but if Rennick is bringing his whole line with him that likely displaces quite a few SCV loyal vets. That sucks.

On topic, I think Phantom's drumline is in for a rough year. There is really nothing about Regiment necessarily that is likely to draw in droves of top notch percussion talent without Rennick there, and really Gwaltney isn't likely to create a draw that will take talent away from any other line in the top 10 IMO. I look for Phantom to experience a huge drop in percussion this year, with Gwaltney building the program back over a few years. I think in general they're likely to have a very young line that will need the benefit of a few seasons to compete very effectively in the top 12. I think the notion of Gwaltney coming in and putting together a top 3-5 line from scratch in his first year is absurd IMO.

Edited January 4, 2011 by BozzlyB

[noneofyourbusiness]

I understand setting yourself up for success, but if Rennick is bringing his whole line with him that likely displaces quite a few SCV loyal vets. That sucks.

On topic, I think Phantom's drumline is in for a rough year. There is really nothing about Regiment necessarily that is likely to draw in droves of top notch percussion talent without Rennick there, and really Gwaltney isn't likely to create a draw that will take talent away from any other line in the top 10 IMO. I look for Phantom to experience a huge drop in percussion this year, with Gwaltney building the program back over a few years. I think in general they're likely to have a very young line that will need the benefit of a few seasons to compete very effectively in the top 12. I think the notion of Gwaltney coming in and putting together a top 3-5 line from scratch in his first year is absurd IMO.

Agreed! Particularly since the lines of BD, Cadets, Crown, Cavies, and Blue Stars are all looking at consistency in staffs, and I have heard of at least one of these lines that has good vet retention numbers in all sections plus most of the rest of the line being filled by multi-year vets from other top lines. It is going to be really difficult for PR to bring in a whole new crew of staff and members and beat these other top 7 lines.

[Stu]

I understand setting yourself up for success, but if Rennick is bringing his whole line with him that likely displaces quite a few SCV loyal vets. That sucks.

So, would you also agree that this belief of yours would also apply to when Rennick brought along most of his clan from Crown which displaced quite a few Regiment loyal vets?

[wackywords]

I understand setting yourself up for success, but if Rennick is bringing his whole line with him that likely displaces quite a few SCV loyal vets. That sucks.

On topic, I think Phantom's drumline is in for a rough year. There is really nothing about Regiment necessarily that is likely to draw in droves of top notch percussion talent without Rennick there, and really Gwaltney isn't likely to create a draw that will take talent away from any other line in the top 10 IMO. I look for Phantom to experience a huge drop in percussion this year, with Gwaltney building the program back over a few years. I think in general they're likely to have a very young line that will need the benefit of a few seasons to compete very effectively in the top 12. I think the notion of Gwaltney coming in and putting together a top 3-5 line from scratch in his first year is absurd IMO.

i agree 1000% with this statement. just not gonna happen. but in due time..

[Madbass4]

It is obvious that following your favorite instructor to get your favorite result is a trend in DCI. Of course we have the "follow Paul" philosophy, which has also happened in the 90s when he left Skyriders to go to Velvet Knights (one of my favorite DCI percussion ensembles, and FAVORITE tenor lines!!!). Throughout my drum corps career I've seen it plenty with other instructors. When Colin McNutt left Magic of Orlando to go to the Madison Scouts, a pool of Magic vets followed to wear the green and red. When colorguard caption head Adam Sage left SCV to go to Phantom from 04 to 05, a lot of his SCV veterans followed to spin for him.

I think that if a group is seriously wanting to be the best, I don't think they are going to think so much about being fair to their veterans unless those veterans are maintaining their responsibility of doing their best to add to the competition. When I had marched a certain corps, corps loyalty was of the utmost importance - however, the last year I marched with them was a seriously bad year for percussion; as many vets did not return to the snare line, and were replaced with candidates most likely to be cut. We did not do well competitively in percussion. Even with the ethos that veterans will always retain their spots - a few of these veterans were asked not to come back. I honestly don't believe that there is a serious organization that keeps every veteran regardless of their talent or lack-of-talent, no and's, if's, or but's. No matter what, a bad-performing veteran can be cut and should be cut.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Madbass4

[BozzlyB]

So, would you also agree that this belief of yours would also apply to when Rennick brought along most of his clan from Crown which displaced quite a few Regiment loyal vets?

Absolutely. This is probably my dinoism getting in the way of me understanding current day membership philosophy, but corps loyalism used to mean something, at the very least it meant if you had a great attitude and held a spot the previous year you'd be considered first for a spot and given the nod.

I seriously doubt that there has been no conversations between Rennick and his "students", if you're looking a the drumline in its entirety bailing from Phantom and going to SCV. What happened to coming in and building a program where it is starting from, teaching your trade and reaping the benifits. Rennick just want's to carry his ace in the hole around in his back pocket everywhere he goes. One would wonder what safeguards SCV might put in place to prevent their own rookie drumline from taking place after Rennick bails to another corps after a few years.

What sucks the most about this type of instructor following, is that it creates a situation where the best line can simply be purchased. The win goes to the highest bidder.

Aungst and Larivee came in to Blue Stars, and taught a fresh line, full of vets from the previous year, and put out the best drumline Blue Stars have ever seen, and if you think they were good last year.....

I was really excited about Rennick at SCV, until I realized almost none of SVC's returning drumline vets will likely benefit from him being there.

[Plan9]

I understand setting yourself up for success, but if Rennick is bringing his whole line with him that likely displaces quite a few SCV loyal vets. That sucks.

On topic, I think Phantom's drumline is in for a rough year. There is really nothing about Regiment necessarily that is likely to draw in droves of top notch percussion talent without Rennick there, and really Gwaltney isn't likely to create a draw that will take talent away from any other line in the top 10 IMO. I look for Phantom to experience a huge drop in percussion this year, with Gwaltney building the program back over a few years. I think in general they're likely to have a very young line that will need the benefit of a few seasons to compete very effectively in the top 12. I think the notion of Gwaltney coming in and putting together a top 3-5 line from scratch in his first year is absurd IMO.

Having known Shane and seeing his skill at training the nearly novice percussionist to a level of acheivement that is uncanny in a relatively short period of time, I suggest to you to "watch what happens!" As in all things Drum Corps, each component of the production (brass, perc, guard, visual) is effected by the quality of the other. Shane has worked with a Championship quality H.S. in Florida where all the other parts were up to his production quality/capability, and together they were extremely successful (repeatedly). And his work with Spirit has always been ahead of the rest of the production. Also, his work with MCM needs no qualification, he is simply a great designer with the chops and skill as a trainer to bring a line up to championship competitive quality if he has the right vehicle (overall DC show design), the other quality production elements and players that "want it and are willing to listen and work for it". The rest is up to CI and synergy. So to my friend Shane...."KICK ### and take no prisoners!"

Edited January 4, 2011 by Plan9

[snaredude08]

I think part of the problem here in people's thought process is that most people here don't follow WGI at all. They only see gwaltney's competitive results in dci, which don't tell the whole story. When you look at the area where his program has much more stability and consistency (music city mystique), the outlook is way, way different. In the PA caption (ie, the music caption, or the equivalent of the percussion caption in dci), I don't know if they've ever scored out of the top 3 in their entire history, and they won it at some point in the past few years (the exact year, I don't remember). So that bodes very well for pr.

[Phantombari1]

Honest Question here and the reason for the topic. Does his success in WGI translate to the field? In my opinion when your corp is on the bottom competitively, (No offense to Spirit), will going to a higher placing corp automatically mean the percussion scores go up as well?

If so we have several problems, of which I will not go into on this topic.

If so it could me several things...Better talent? Slotting magnified?, or a combination of the two.

This would also apply to all the other catagories as well.

Don't get me wrong there is definitely a huge difference in quality from the top to the bottom but if a particular section performs well, like Phantoms percussion last year then I would expect to see the same on the bottom as well.

Good performaces should be reflected on both the performers and instructors.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Phantombari1

[spiritofboston]

I went to some of Phantoms rehearsals last year and noticed a trend. The way paul talked to the line was so calm, I couldn't even hear him most of the time. I never saw any screaming or "physical punishment" being dealt out to the drumline. The rest of the captions seemed to have a different approach, yelling and even calling some of the students names. Not to mention the amount of running and push ups I saw dealt out. Phantom to me has the image of being "hardcore" andI think the drumline just didn't have the same belief. If the rehearsal I saw were any indication of how the whole summer went, then why would the drumline have corps loyality over their caption head who never "punished" them?

Also, my friends son marched mello this year and told me something interesting about the end of the year banquet. He said only two drumline members attended the banquet. Of a 30+ member drumline only two felt like going tocelebrate their corps! That to me says the drumline goes into things together. It doesnt seem that far fetched to me that they would decide on their own as a group to leave for scv with out paul talking to them. Drummers don't go to Phantom to march Phantom, they go their to march under Paul. Now that he's gone I think we can expect a huge drop off in experienced talent. I would be curious to know how many spirit vets left for Phantom.