glory Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I’ll concede that a G-bugle playing, unplugged corps is distinct. Even a Bb, unplugged corps. Unfortunately, that distinction becomes less useful and relevant over time. Suspending drum corps as if in amber might preserve certain unique elements of the art. The clear downside is the obvious disconnect from the world around it. Drum corps would be the marching equivalent of an oldies station on FM. No matter how much you love the music, there’s no denying it’s always looking back and never forward. The model isn’t sustainable indefinitely. Eventually, the playlist changes even so the oldies format can survive. The synth choice isn’t about identity. It’s about relevance. Ignoring the trends around drum corps is ignoring the market around drum corps. Oldies station exist as a niche in a large market. Drum corps isn’t a large market. It is the niche. It is the radio station playing a narrow range of hits. If the range never changes, the audience will – and not in a good way. Time marches on even when drum corps doesn’t. HH 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I’ll concede that a G-bugle playing, unplugged corps is distinct. Even a Bb, unplugged corps. Unfortunately, that distinction becomes less useful and relevant over time. Suspending drum corps as if in amber might preserve certain unique elements of the art. The clear downside is the obvious disconnect from the world around it. Drum corps would be the marching equivalent of an oldies station on FM. No matter how much you love the music, there’s no denying it’s always looking back and never forward. The model isn’t sustainable indefinitely. Eventually, the playlist changes even so the oldies format can survive. The synth choice isn’t about identity. It’s about relevance. Ignoring the trends around drum corps is ignoring the market around drum corps. Oldies station exist as a niche in a large market. Drum corps isn’t a large market. It is the niche. It is the radio station playing a narrow range of hits. If the range never changes, the audience will – and not in a good way. HH Right. Because I've never heard anyone from my generation profess to liking The Beatles or Bob Dylan. Music and sound are just that. Timeless. You can try all you want to associate particular style and instruments with a certain time period, but that doesn't mean there's something that makes that style more inherently suited to yesteryear. If you think the musical excellence of a top twelve DCI corps straight out of 1985, entirely unchanged, wouldn't elicit the same if not greater reaction from an audience today, you're deluding yourself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I’ll concede that a G-bugle playing, unplugged corps is distinct. Even a Bb, unplugged corps. Unfortunately, that distinction becomes less useful and relevant over time. Suspending drum corps as if in amber might preserve certain unique elements of the art. The clear downside is the obvious disconnect from the world around it. Exactly. Just like soccer, unchanging amid a changing world (in which it reigns as the most popular spectator sport). Drum corps would be the marching equivalent of an oldies station on FM. No matter how much you love the music, there’s no denying it’s always looking back and never forward. That's not a valid analogy. Perhaps some alumni corps might fit that description, but not even all of them. Unless drum corps kept playing the same shows over and over again, there would always be new show designs each year. The model isn’t sustainable indefinitely. I think I've heard the same thing about classical music....the piano....soccer....all sorts of things that are still around. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 No....your twisting of my words is absurd. No twisting. It's exactly what you said. You listed a series of effects created acoustically then posted: For me, these moments of acoustic creativity are the highlights of drum corps' genius. They thrilled me live (at least, the ones I could see live, 1981-on), and they continue to thrill me on recordings decades later. We don't have moments like that in DCI anymore. Hearing the Bluecoats use the "reverb" button on their mixing board does not exhibit genius, and does not evoke that same reaction. Hmm. "Highlights" = list of sound effects. Hard to see any twisting there. And I'm not the only one in this thread who followed you down that path. Glad to hear you still enjoy the activity. I do too. And I *like* acoustic drum corps. But as much as I loved the acoustic-only version of drum corps, I don't think adding electronics is the end-of-the-world. It makes a huge amount of sense for the "effect" side of it. And there have been some really nice moments on the "music" side of it. For instance I was absolutely entranced during the music-box moment in Crown '09. I had no interest in looking down in the pit and seeing HOW that was being played -- it didn't matter -- because what I was hearing so perfectly matched what I was seeing. That moment would not have been better acoustically -- in fact I think the celeste patch (if that's what it was) was absolutely dead-on perfect.. The playing was wonderfully sensitive and musical. The sound level ideal. And the fact that there was no motion in the pit actually helped create the stillness. The whole thing was magical. You literally could have heard a pin drop. I'm not so sure you could have created the same overall effect acoustically. Another moment I don't think you could do acoustic-only: the apple bite. No amount of creative genius is going to create that complex sound at that decibel level with that authenticity. And it was a well-crafted moment in the show. No one *cared* that it was a sample -- the moment mattered not the mechanism. I don't think electronics are taking away anything. I agree that if the entire show were kids playing keyboards it wouldn't be drum corps. But I just don't see that happening. The fundamentals -- brass ensemble and percussion moving around on a football field -- have not been irrevocably changed by introducing keyboards in the FE. Could they? Sure. If corps were out there doubling every brass part on the keyboards I'd say it'd be a big problem. But I haven't heard that and don't expect to hear it. I'd like the ensemble balance to improved in some moments -- but I felt the same way before A&E. There have always been balance challenges in drum corps. I see the potential negatives. The difference is I can also acknowledge the positives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Right. Because I've never heard anyone from my generation profess to liking The Beatles or Bob Dylan. Music and sound are just that. Timeless. You can try all you want to associate particular style and instruments with a certain time period, but that doesn't mean there's something that makes that style more inherently suited to yesteryear. If you think the musical excellence of a top twelve DCI corps straight out of 1985, entirely unchanged, wouldn't elicit the same if not greater reaction from an audience today, you're deluding yourself. Then isn't it better to just have variety? "Modern style Corps" mixed with "80's style corps"? Just like any ipod playlist? Here's the game plan: Have the rules about electronics and synths in place. change the judging to make it "actually" optional. Allow both acoustic and electric drum corps to compete fairly against each other... boom. Lovely Variety in drum corps! Edited January 7, 2011 by charlie1223 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Then isn't it better to just have variety? Modern Corps mixed with 80's corps or 90's corps? Just like any ipod playlist? Yes! And that's something that's completely infeasible with the way the organization is structured today, plain and simple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I think I've heard the same thing about classical music....the piano....soccer....all sorts of things that are still around. True. All very true. But we don't JUST have Classical music right? We have a million other styles that actually compete with classical music. classical music becomes relevant when it isn't the only style of music we hear. I feel the same about drum corps... just get variety back and show people that they can appreciate BOTH acoustic, g bugle horn lines AND electric corps together as long as we have both of them existing at the same time. I"m not talking about how feasible this might be... but honestly, I can think positively and believe that a model like that will sustain drum corps and please fans for years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Yes! And that's something that's completely infeasible with the way the organization is structured today, plain and simple. Agreed. And people realize there is a problem. But that doesn't mean it can't be restructured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 No twisting. It's exactly what you said. You listed a series of effects created acoustically then posted: Hmm. "Highlights" = list of sound effects. And ever since, you've carried on as if those few things I listed are the only moments in all of drum corps history that have any value to me. Kind of like if I took your post.... For instance I was absolutely entranced during the music-box moment in Crown '09. I had no interest in looking down in the pit and seeing HOW that was being played -- it didn't matter -- because what I was hearing so perfectly matched what I was seeing. That moment would not have been better acoustically -- in fact I think the celeste patch (if that's what it was) was absolutely dead-on perfect.. The playing was wonderfully sensitive and musical. The sound level ideal. And the fact that there was no motion in the pit actually helped create the stillness. The whole thing was magical. You literally could have heard a pin drop. I'm not so sure you could have created the same overall effect acoustically. Another moment I don't think you could do acoustic-only: the apple bite. No amount of creative genius is going to create that complex sound at that decibel level with that authenticity. And it was a well-crafted moment in the show. No one *cared* that it was a sample -- the moment mattered not the mechanism. ....and peppered you with questions about all the shows where there were no celeste patches or apple bites. Did music never match visual? Were those shows musically insensitive? Was there no creative genius in drum corps prior to 2009? Was no one captivated by a show with no opportunity to synthesize a biting sound? Oh, and by the way.... No one *cared* that it was a sample -- the moment mattered not the mechanism. You don't speak for everyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 And ever since, you've carried on as if those few things I listed are the only moments in all of drum corps history that have any value to me. Because that's precisely how you couched your objection to electronics. Don't blame the reader for only having the printed words to rely on. You don't speak for everyone. This is the most inane meme on DCP . It's an expression. Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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