perc2100 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Wello, my human eyes from viweing 2010 DCI's top 12 can clearly see that many of these corps marched very sloppy, with so many marching errors for me to critique them all would sound like a tick tape from someone with turrets syndrome. Back to previous example, and I am not being unfair posting this clip is is from the San Antonio show, somewhere about 1/2 way thru the season: Check out these contra bass interval errors on 7/28 starting at about 1:48 , yikes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol4nZ84lxDA&feature=related Those interval errors are huge, and more proof in my opinion that this go to the dot - dot subset thing and ignore everything else like intervals and forms just does not work. Just to understand your nit-picking point: A non-Top 6 corps was dirty. In San Antonio. A few weeks before Finals. And w/another post, regarding Cavaliers 2006, a corps wasn't perfect/flawless for literally a second or two before a (REALLY nice) recovery yet still won High Vis/DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 The basic framework of this discussion is flawed. Exceptional visual requires both. I quote a visual genius: "You spend 90% of the show in transition from set to set. You maintain the form. Period. But you better be, by gawd, on your spot at the end of the move." - George Zingali George was an exceptiional instructor, and a good friend. I miss him. I agree with his statement. One of the highlights of my drum corps experience was standing next to George when Garfield performed in Atlanta in 1984. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) so let's say you judge. how will you be able to freeze frame things to find all these errors you calim exist? A good judege does not need to freeze frame in order to see these kind of errors. I freeze framed in order to show the error that I can see at full speed to everyone. A good judge has to be fair, has to rank / rate each corps/band properly, and judge using given criteria. As far as why don't I do more than I do , or why haven't I done more than I have w/ corps since 08... I am disabled, with muscular dystrophy. I do the best that I can. In 09 I was involved with a corps that had a very small hornline, and since the corps had many instructors and I was the brass staffer who lived the farthest from the corps [a very long way] , I chose not to tour. In 10 I was scheduled to leave for tour in July when my father in law and sister in law both passed away within two weeks of each other. Will I volunteer in 2011? I am not sure. I had a job as a brass tech for an open class corps in 2011, but the brass caption head was dismissed a month ago and I left [quietly - I was not involved with the disagreement, thank you Jesus] so I am looking at my options, to either volunteer [ I have a few corps interviewing me] , do nothing, or perhaps play in mini corps or DCI, but the issue with DCA is that I am not able to march - walk - stand very much. I have a chance to play on the sidelines with a well known sr. corps , and I might choose this route, or I might just choose to stay on TN, or perhaps my health will not allow me to leave TN in 11. As far as Heritage goes I have muscular dystrophy, and as long as I live I will never be well enough to manage a drumcorps again. Heritage is currently inactive, and has been since 1994. Court of Honor has been inactive since I think 2004. I would love to see Heritage re-activate, but I am not the person who will be able to direct the corps. I pray that God will send the right person. I believe he already has. Heritage just needs to re-organize and re-activate, and that is a real possibility, but that is now out of my hands. All the best, Michael Edited January 18, 2011 by Howdy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 A good judege does not need to freeze frame in order to see these kind of errors. I freeze framed in order to show the error that I can see at full speed to everyone. A good judge has to be fair, has to rank / rate each corps/band properly, and judge using given criteria. As far as why don't I do more than I do , or why haven't I done more than I have w/ corps since 08... I am disabled, with muscular dystrophy. I do the best that I can. In 09 I was involved with a corps that had a very small hornline, and since the corps had many instructors and I was the brass staffer who lived the farthest from the corps [a very long way] , I chose not to tour. In 10 I was scheduled to leave for tour in July when my father in law and sister in law both passed away within two weeks of each other. Will I volunteer in 2011? I am not sure. I had a job as a brass tech for an open class corps in 2011, but the brass caption head was dismissed a month ago and I left [quietly - I was not involved with the disagreement, thank you Jesus] so I am looking at my options, to either volunteer [ I have a few corps interviewing me] , do nothing, or perhaps play in mini corps or DCI, but the issue with DCA is that I am not able to march - walk - stand very much. I have a chance to play on the sidelines with a well known sr. corps , and I might choose this route, or I might just choose to stay on TN, or perhaps my health will not allow me to leave TN in 11. As far as Heritage goes I have muscular dystrophy, and as long as I live I will never be well enough to manage a drumcorps again. Heritage is currently inactive, and has been since 1994. Court of Honor has been inactive since I think 2004. I would love to see Heritage re-activate, but I am not the person who will be able to direct the corps. I pray that God will send the right person. I believe he already has. Heritage just needs to re-organize and re-activate, and that is a real possibility, but that is now out of my hands. All the best, Michael ok...so then on the days of these shows you have showed us, who got a perfect visual score? and the judges are ranking, rating and giving a fair score based on the criteria in use today...it just seems you dont like the criteria. well let's be honest...the tick system you keep harping about with 1980 North Star was just as subjective as what is in use today. There were no written manuals of what was and wasn't a tick back then....it was up to each judge to determine what they thought was a tick. it just so happens today drills have a lot more going on than what they used to have. is it wrong? no, just different. IMO, I'm far more upset at things going on with musical arrangement than visual performance errors, that, when you take all a corps is asked to do in those 11 minutes, some thing so minute that you point out is beyond minor. it's almost reduced to the size of the atom in the grand scheme of things. I guarantee you, if drill in 1980 had been even like it was by say 1985, you'd see things like you point out, especially weeks before finals. oh and I went home last night and checked out some of the 1980 dvd. so explain to me those mark time heights and how those visual scores were handed out? I mean based on your criteria, no one should have gotten above an 18 out of 25 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudHype Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Yes, similar moments can and have been done with a form only approach, but the demand on the tuba section specifically would require a competent pyware user to write it in a "cleanable" fashion. I'm fairly confident we wouldn't see that moment from a dot-only corps, because changing step sizes and pathways on the move isn't what they do, especially when you use that most kryptonite like term to any Cavalier..."Curved Pathway". I don't say that in a pejorative way because there are other tools which they use more often and much better than any form marcher. But the point is, while anything is possible were you to chart and clean count by count, some things just aren't reasonable under those circumstances, and are therefore charted, learned, taught, and cleaned differently. ~Michael I use Pyware and I'm a lover of just about everything Jay Murphy and you can throw in others like Zingali or Sully. I also tend to write more in their style and let me tell you, writing "curved pathways" are a ...welll.... not pleasant. You have to basically write to the count and subset the heck out of it.Occasionally you can use the track tool if it is only a few members, then you have to use arrows to show the pathway on the drill chart. I actually have to do the latter quite often when moving guard into negative space. I've heard from reliable sources that a follow the leader is taught by the dot to the count in some "dot only corps". Overkill, you bet IMO, works for them I guess. So yes, you can write those moves but it is a total pain in the butt and if I didn't have to send animations with my charts, I would just write the picture and forget it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHoosierMack Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Howdy, this is going to be my mantra until you pony up or shut up: Please provide us with a link to a video of a unit under your instruction which proves your contention. If you can provide us with such a video, and it can be freeze framed with near perfect results, then we might let up on you a bit. Otherwise your contention holds no support whatsoever. Jeez Stu, you're so cynical.... Just check this thread, Howdy was listed as the Tuba tech (Say WHaaaa?)here, so I'm sure he can provide us with some great examples to quiet the masses.... Oh wait...you wanted a video, my bad... ~Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 1. velocity amplifies error. marcher D moving at an 16:5 at 120bpm can 5-10% out and it's hard to see. marcher K moving at 6:5 at 200bpm will have a similar small error amplified and thus easier to identify. 2. not every transition from set to set is a form on every beat. some effects where a form "comes from nowhere" will 'dissolve' and re-form instead of re-shape. because the eye loses the form, it's reappearance is surprising (and a good effect). this will often elicit "how did they do that?" Quite frankly anyone who thinks that today's corps can't march rings around a typical 1980's corps is using some very nice mind-altering chemicals. Exchange drill charts between the two corps and the 2011 corps would be done learning the drill in far less than a day and be *cleaner* than the 80's guys in a few days. The 80's guys -- quite frankly I don't they'd even attempt it. Everyone in the entire corps /staff would say "you can't be serious." Additionally anyone who thinks you can march modern drill with "form only" is on the same stuff. IMO this confusion mostly stems from terminology and ignorance/unfamiliarity. People use concepts from both and just don't realize it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Additionally anyone who thinks you can march modern drill with "form only" is on the same stuff. IMO this confusion mostly stems from terminology and ignorance/unfamiliarity. People use concepts from both and just don't realize it. I completely agree with everything you said, I just wanted to 'highlight' this end part. I think the OP is substantially out of his depth, and doesn't understand 'dot' marching (and possibly 'form' marching) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesiscorps Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I consider this a "good to meet ya" opportunity. My name's Michael, played mello for 2 years DCI (99 Gmen, 01 Devils), Auditioned, was accepted, and got all the way to MEPS in Indy, before being DQ'ed from Marine Corps for of all things hearing loss. You lived my dream man. I have been involved now for I guess about half of my 30 years on the planet in some form or fashion. I've only recently become a decent writer, but I love learning the activity, love gettin' dirty in a sincere intellectual disagreement, and am honest enough with myself to know when to say "I'm wrong". I probably shouldn't allow myself to be annoyed by anything so late at night....sorry man. ~Michael All is well friend, and again, I apologize to anyone that my comments may have unintentionally struck a nerve with. It's a pretty small world in this niche activity, and it's filled with incredibly talented and intelligent people. It seems that the longer we stay actively involved, the more opportunities we gain to cross paths and expand our own perspectives. I'm sure that you and I have several mutual acquaintances. For me, Todd Ryan comes to mind. I met him before he ventured west, in his post-Madison, early Pioneer/Star years, and I learned much from him. You and others have brought great content to this discussion... and then we have Howdy, who has been more a source of weird entertainment than anything else. However, after one filters through the warped agenda and odd absurdities, even he has some valid information that can be of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Jeez Stu, you're so cynical.... Just check this thread, Howdy was listed as the Tuba tech (Say WHaaaa?)here, so I'm sure he can provide us with some great examples to quiet the masses.... Oh wait...you wanted a video, my bad... ~Michael Me? Cynical? Sarcastic? Bluntly Honest? Yep, Guilty as Charged Sir!!! Anyway, I guess you missed my previous post in this thread (#40) where I took a slap at his street-cred with this statement: "But if I remember correctly, you are the wise one who also thought a "teenager" would make a great Executive Director for a purported new drum corps that was going to buy a new mobile kitchen, secure new instruments, lease three Wynne Buses, provide a high quality staff, and based in Indiana; correct?" By the way, he never responded to this statement, nor has he provided any video proving his contentions in this thread; (did you read that Howdy?) Edited January 19, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.