Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 The 35 member rule is a hardship on some corps, but DCA is in the business of organizing Exciting & Entertaining Drum Corps shows. There's a reasonable expectation from the show sponsors that the corps have 35+ people on the field. They have to shell out $15-20K to run a show pretty much at there own risk. If the corps are all smaller and not noticably better than the local band (in many people's eyes this=BIGGER), then why would the locals at Lewisburg or Wayne, etc keep coming to the show at $10-$25 a ticket? The show has to be a spectacle! Yes, this is hard for some corps to achieve, but that's what makes it drum corps. All the rules should steer corps toward eventually becoming full sized drum corps that will knock the socks off of audiences at every show. Mini-corps and even Class A should be stepping stones in that direction, IMHO. You want to talk about Helath of the Activity? Let's have 16-20 Open Class Corps of 100+ members and 6-10 Class A Corps of 50+ members at Annapolis in 2012. That would be peas & carrots healthy! Now (RIGHT NOW!)is the time for each corps to develop and execute a plan to make that happen. If a corps hasn't been able to make this happen for a few years, then do something different. Bring in fresh blood at the planning table. Take an honest look at your organizational structure. Maybe it's you? This will come across as harsh to some, but I believe it to be true. I've read a hundred times about how the Buccaneers have taken the fun out of things. Well, you know what? Steal from them! Run the corps the way they do and see if things don't improve. I can remember seeing the Bucs with 20 horns and not making finals in the 90's. Look at them now. I don't think it's magic. It's strong commitment to a sound plan. I almost agree 100%. I'd love to see more A class move into Open, but I don't want a mandate. that'd kill corps off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 So let's take this discussion up one more level. What causes the excitement? What causes people to be in the seats? If a 128 member corps plays the exact same show as a 35 member corps, will the 128 member corps get more reaciton (and, dare I say, a higher score)? If loud is all that matters anymore, then that argues for amplification on the field. If QUALITY matters, then what does it matter how many are on the field? Could someone list the sizes of the top 5 corps the last 10-15 years? Thus, one must conclude that quality does not matter to the audience at large IF you don't have the quantity. Think about this year. There are a few VERY good Class A horn lines out there. They are clean, effective, playing difficult books. However, no matter how clean they get, do they have a realistic chance of being in the top 5 horn lines? Top 7? If their book was played identically by Reading, would it place the same? (I know what the answer should be in theory, but can we admit reality to ourselves...). The same could be said about percussion lines and guards. Conclusion: Size matters to the audience and the judges. Loud matters to the audiences and judges. Quality falls well behind these two. If DCA wants to continue this trend, then it should outlaw all corps under, say 90 members, and work on developing max-size corps. If DCA truly cares about quality, it should promote and reward quality with their judges and audiences regardless of size. Remember this...fans aren't all about the scores. DCA shows are still more community based than a DCI show is. Now I do feel some A Class corps should have scored higher than some Open Class corps over the years. The average Joe Schmoe doesn't give two ##### about how technical a horn book is...look at a rock concert? What gets a crowd going....a ballad, a super prog rock piece with tons of notes for the sake of notes, or a well constructed in your face jam? This is the issue that has faced DCI recently...is it all about the technicality?? if it was, DCI wouldn't be seeing attendance drop too, and the percentage of loss there is higher than DCA is seeing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Cleanliness carried more weight then because that's *all* that was judged in performance captions. The content itself was never, ever considered. That's why no corps ever took any risks (especially visually), marched difficult drill, or marched at anything other than a comfortable cruising speed with average sized steps. Today's corps have more drill pages in their openers than corps had in their entire show all those years ago. Even from a musical standpoint shows are far more demanding (especially when you factor in staging and horizontal/vertical alignment). Any one of today's Open class corps could take one of those shows from the tic era, learn in on a Saturday and clean it on a Sunday. Seriously. Today, cleanliness is all based on derived achievement. First you consider what is being done (musically or visually), what else is happening at the time (simultaneous responsibility), and to what extent the attempted content is achieved. That's why you cannot simply perform a ridiculously easy show to perfection and expect to beat a corps that attempts far more difficult content and achieves it well (though not perfect). i almost agree 100%. maybe tempos weren't bumped then, but snare books BITD would take more than a weekend to get it clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 i almost agree 100%. maybe tempos weren't bumped then, but snare books BITD would take more than a weekend to get it clean Absolutely. But musical, they were not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Absolutely. But musical, they were not. you didn't say musical ( tho some were). you just said they could learn and clean in a weekend. and, as Fran pointed out, many horn books had a hell of a lot more notes before tempos went way up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOReason Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 John, I will disagree with that. My years in Sunrisers... during the tick-system era... we most definitely went out on a limb with our visual program at various times... sometimes too much, IMO... including high-speed drill for most of our main percussion feature in 1977 (Dance of the Wind-Up Toy). And our brass and percussion charts weren't exactly "Come to Jesus" in whole notes. LOL. They were very challenging... and I think they have stood the test of time. I'm sure we were not the only example of a "corps taking risks" during the tick-system era. Spot on! I dare anyone to look a video of Sunrisers circa 1988-89 and compare the first 3 minutes of the program against the first 3 minutes of 2010 MBI (both available on youtube), and then come on these boards and say how much more demand there is in the modern DCA. Truth is, outside of Bucs, Bush and some insane drill from the Cabs periodically, I just don't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Drum Corps Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Except that the SDCA concept seems to be having a hard time gaining any traction,...........many of the shows that have been scheduled have been subsequently cancelled,.........there is no formalized system of judging, Also, corps of any size can play exhibitions if the show sponsors or event organizers accept them,......... We have been through this many times. The mini corps as a rule, are not really interested in becoming larger or competing with those class A corps. We have something that is very unique and should not have to change it. We can use as many people throughout the year for gigs will no worry of penalties. We also know that we have to trim down for DCA competition if necessary. The mini corps I am involved with does parades, exhibitions, and gigs at venues you wouldnt think would work for drum corps at all. We have performers that will not be able to do the physical demand of drill and any more movement than absolutely necessary to embellish the music. The sheets are set up so we can get some credit for visual enhancement, but if you dont move at all...no one even cares....including the judges. You dont even get credit for movement unless it enhances the musical product. DCA is beginning to see that the amount of competing corps and shows will continue to decline if something isnt done. They are also finding that there are other drum corps related groups that can fill a show and ENTERTAIN the crowd. The alumni corps, the mini corps, and the specialty groups are now being recognized as a way to fill out a show with smaller groups competing than ever before. The recent show in Rochester had Ghost Riders, Prime Time Brass and the Hitmen. These groups are all supposed to small ensembles. The hardest part to believe, is that ALL three had bigger brass lines than 2 of the class A corps. We tried MCA, we tried SDCA...they both had to be very localized, because of travel cost. The group I am a part does not limit ourselves to rehearsing for one show on the Friday night of Labor Day weekend. Donny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 you didn't say musical ( tho some were). Most definitely. Sun included, during the Dennis DeLucia years. Dennis wrote a very musical book for Sun's line. In the tick-system era. I would challenge any modern-day snare line (or entire drum line) to take a Sunriser book from the DeLucia era, learn it and clean it in two days. Not going to happen. Not a knock on the modern-day lines... they are great at what they do. John, you can't paint any era with such a broad brush. "None were." "No one did (whatever)." Because it is not accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 For the record, I was considering "back in the day" to be based on the years Jim had in his sig line...early-mid 70's. Visually, I've always considered the line of demarcation to be about 1982 or so, with the musical evolution starting a bit earlier...about 1980 for brass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Priester Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Most definitely. Sun included, during the Dennis DeLucia years. Dennis wrote a very musical book for Sun's line. In the tick-system era. I would challenge any modern-day snare line (or entire drum line) to take a Sunriser book from the DeLucia era, learn it and clean it in two days. Not going to happen. Not a knock on the modern-day lines... they are great at what they do. John, you can't paint any era with such a broad brush. "None were." "No one did (whatever)." Because it is not accurate. I highly doubt that one could learn and perfect ANY of Wes Myers' Skyliners drum books, from anywhere in the 70s, in just one weekend. Those were some tough charts and even incorporated TWO snare lines playing point/counterpoint charts for the entire show. One particular judge, BITD, has stated he might have possibly scored a little on the low side. "You made it look so easy", said he. Now he realizes just how hard we worked to get it to the point of "looking so easy"! Trust me, these weren't books you could polish off in just one weekend. And I'm fairly certain that YR's, Sun's, Bucs', Cab's, Hurcs', Cru', Les Dips', etc. charts were just as challenging and musical for them. Not one of those and other lines ever took it easy or took for granted the marks they got each week. Every year was a challenge and no one willingly took a back seat to anyone. JMHO Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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