What would get you going to more shows and or finals?

[jjeffeory]

it boils down to opinion. And while I may know many of the tunes played last year, the arrangement of them in many cases is what left me flat. But I know I had no idea what the hell Spartacus was in 81, but the arrangement sold me. I never heard of Chuck Mangione til 76 BD and the arrangement sold me. Star's stuff in 90 and 93? sold me.

why? the arrangment

Exactly, it's all about the presentation. The source music could be anything. What makes or breaks the work is the arrangement or the presentation.

This is what is keeping many away from not only finals, but other shows.

[jjeffeory]

Why is everyone saying that the music is so pathetic? I LOVED Cavalier's, Crown's, Phantom's, Bluecoats, Blue Knights, Madison's, and Trooper's music. Granted, there were some abstract selections done by some corps, but there was plenty of crowd pleasing music, why are you guys saying that so many corps are doing just weird, vague selections? I just dont see it.

It's the presentation.

It's the arrangement.

It's not the selections, it's how they're pieced together that could improve immensely.

You've picked the most accessible arrangements out of the bunch of shows last year for me, yet a couple of them were a difficult sell for portions of their show. For me, you could add Blue Stars to the list. I enjoyed that show too...

[bawker]

IF your complaining that drum corps doesn't do enough "recognizable music" that's says something more about the kind of music your exposed to than it does about the kind of music drum corps put out.

Perhaps it does: however, consider this . . .most people have very little "in" to the world of classical music or (especially) wind ensemble literature.

Many school systems lack even a basic Humanities class to teach such things, and the average person probably doesn't make it too far past 1812 Overture, Carmen or Canon to reach the Bartoks, Goreckis, etc when they consider what they might like regarding classical music.

For some, they're just not going to get Hazo, Mackey, etc on their first (and possibly only go-round).

I don't know that drum corps. . .even with all the hoopty-poo electronics and whatever else . . .is really the medium for the "nuance" designers nowadays think shows need to score points.

At its heart . . .yes, even now . . .drum corps is a big, dumb thing: it handles big, sloppy, emotional moments you can splatter with a wide brush on the field well (Spartacus, Phantom of the Opera, etc), it works on the visceral level of "louder, faster, higher" . . .and that's what makes the impressions that cause people to fall in love with it.

The further we move from that, the more the idea of what "drum corps" is gets lost to me personally.

[jjeffeory]

I sympathize with people who don't like dissonant shows like Blue Coats or BD

I sympathize with people who hate chopped up arrangements of recognizable music/appealing music

I sympathize with people who want more "melody" in drum corps.

I sympathize with people who want to hear drum corps classics.

I do not sympathize with people who say they only want to hear recognizable music. NOT AT ALL. Why? Because what's "recognizable" is entirely subjective! Those people may have a small musical vocabulary and don't have the means to appreciate a number of beautiful, amazing works; not just the handful or so that they think are "recognizable" to them. They are closed minded to hearing NEW favorites and NEW beautiful crowd pleasing arrangements. A show is not BAD just because you don't recognize the melody or music. Period. If your disgruntled because you don't recognize the music on the field then drum corps is just not the medium for you. Good luck ever finding a something new that you'd like.

A suggestion, if a corps announces their 2011 repertoire and you don't recognize it, familiarize yourself with the source music! Don't go around nagging "ugh... Unfamiliar music!!"

I agree with you, a show is not BAD just because of the reasons you've mentioned above. They're bad because of the arrangement and presentation. I personally HATE the choppy arrangements by many corps today.

It's funny, if people familiarize themselves with the source music, it wouldn't necessarily matter if there's only one measure juxtaposed in a mound of sound they are presented with during a performance. I'm sure man here DO get the source music, and are disappointed when they hear the presentation and arrangement on the field that has completely bastardized the intent of the original composer.

Not every corps does it, but so many do. It's an obvious problem that has driven many away from attending finals or other shows.

[jjeffeory]

Yea I agree with this. No one wants to study a show before seeing it. They just want to see it an enjoy it. BUT watching football is more fun when you know hot to play the game, know a bit about the teams playing, the players involved, the stakes, etc. same with any sport.

before you go to a rock concert, you hear the band's music first and decide if you like it or not, get familiar with it first. Maybe learn the lyrics so you can sing along before you go to the concert. No one just goes to ANY old rock concert expecting that the random band performing will have music that they like.

IF your complaining that drum corps doesn't do enough "recognizable music" that's says something more about the kind of music your exposed to than it does about the kind of music drum corps put out.

Corps should release audio from their show every month. Maybe 20 seconds or 30 seconds or different parts, Maybe the same part played 3 times in the same clip. Get people familiar with the product without dishing out all the goods.

You're kinda preaching to the choir here. We know how drum corps works... We've seen it for quite some time.

As said before, corps do NOT have to play "recognizable music" to gain appeal. They simply have to have entertaining presentation and arrangements as well as excellence. That shouldn't be so hard to do.

Edited January 25, 2011 by jjeffeory

[Super Don-O]

I sympathize with people who don't like dissonant shows like Blue Coats or BD

I sympathize with people who hate chopped up arrangements of recognizable music/appealing music

I sympathize with people who want more "melody" in drum corps.

I sympathize with people who want to hear drum corps classics.

I do not sympathize with people who say they only want to hear recognizable music. NOT AT ALL. Why? Because what's "recognizable" is entirely subjective! Those people may have a small musical vocabulary and don't have the means to appreciate a number of beautiful, amazing works; not just the handful or so that they think are "recognizable" to them. They are closed minded to hearing NEW favorites and NEW beautiful crowd pleasing arrangements. A show is not BAD just because you don't recognize the melody or music. Period. If your disgruntled because you don't recognize the music on the field then drum corps is just not the medium for you. Good luck ever finding a something new that you'd like.

A suggestion, if a corps announces their 2011 repertoire and you don't recognize it, familiarize yourself with the source music! Don't go around nagging "ugh... Unfamiliar music!!"

There's a lot of truth here. I love classical music and jazz, but the number of outlets for me to discover composers and works I'm not familiar with are very limited. I don't have easy access to a University music department to expose me to new things in concerts and recitals, and the radio isn't much help.

Drum Corps has introduced me to many pieces which I now consider favorites, but would likely never have found on my own.

Honestly, how many of you were familiar with Walton's Belshazzar's Feast prior to Star performing the hell out of it in 1990. How many of you knew much about John Adams before Cadets took us for a ride in 1991. I'm sure for some of you who were music majors you might have had some exposure, but for a very large number of us these were new introductions that have led to a lifetime of pleasure.

I love hearing old favorites on the field, but I also love being introduced to the new. As far as I'm concerned "recognizable" isn't necessarily what we should be aiming for (or avoiding), I'd much rather see corps aim for words like "engaging", "inspiring", "groovy", "intense", "emotional", "imaginitive", "amazing" - if you achieve those things it won't matter if the fans recognize what you're playing, they'll cheer for you and just maybe discover something new.

[cadetzoid]

> Still...finals is the end game, the reason we go all summer. it SHOULD have bigger attendance. It used to do just that. The question or questions is why Doesn't it?

My opinion on falling Finals Attendance:

1) Lack of “unpredictable” excitement from the placements from regionals to finals; for example a Seattle Seahawks type group with a losing record will never in a million years knock off a previous years grand champion New Orleans Saints type group during finals week.

2) Although there is somewhat of a quality variation, there is not that much of a change in “the top 12 show” from regionals to finals(and the super bowl or world series analogy does not apply due to number 1 above).

3) Not much interest in people becoming Grateful Dead type groupies following corps' from regionals to finals.

4) A person can go to a regional within driving distance, see all corps’ perform, and then use the other portion of their expendable income on something else they enjoy equally as well.

My "Utopian" Fix:

1) At local shows and regionals no public announcing of scores, just placements (corps' would be judged and receive feedback from judges and receive their own score, but not any other corps' score, privately); during finals week only announce advancements from prelims to simis and simis to finals; then publicly announce scores and placements during the Finale Retreat after the finals performance. This will help keep the public suspense going all the way until finals.

2) Never have "all" of the corps' compete at one venue until prelims of finals week. Make the regionals half WC corps and half OC corps and mix up the corps at each regional. This will mean for anyone to see all corps together in one place they have to travel to finals.

Stu,

I do not come to this sight often because of the tenor of most posts. I agree with your post and think it insightful but also easily understood by anyone asking these important questions.

I voted for other, though my reasons for not attending are a mix of several factors: not enough corps excite or interest me any longer (ticket value is low), the atmosphere in the stands has become too cynical, rude, and at times hateful, and the domes simply are awful, especially for us who care about the music first and foremost.

[Jeff Ream]

Why is everyone saying that the music is so pathetic? I LOVED Cavalier's, Crown's, Phantom's, Bluecoats, Blue Knights, Madison's, and Trooper's music. Granted, there were some abstract selections done by some corps, but there was plenty of crowd pleasing music, why are you guys saying that so many corps are doing just weird, vague selections? I just dont see it.

let's say for example everyone agreed with your 7.

thats 30% of World Class.

is that worth the money to like 30% of what you hear?

to many people, no it isn't.

[Jeff Ream]

. . .for some people, the first exposure they get to drum corps reps is in the program book that night. Drum corps isn't a night at the opera, nor is it anything that should require previous exposure to "the original" (which is almost always invariably better, anyway) to glean familiarity from.

To say that we need to study up somehow before a show puts the onus of "responsibility" on exactly the wrong set of people: your job as a performer (of any kind) is to sell me on what you're doing, not the other way around. I'm not there as the audience to sell myself on how great you are.

agreed 10000000000000000%.

[Jeff Ream]

Yea I agree with this. No one wants to study a show before seeing it. They just want to see it an enjoy it. BUT watching football is more fun when you know hot to play the game, know a bit about the teams playing, the players involved, the stakes, etc. same with any sport.

before you go to a rock concert, you hear the band's music first and decide if you like it or not, get familiar with it first. Maybe learn the lyrics so you can sing along before you go to the concert. No one just goes to ANY old rock concert expecting that the random band performing will have music that they like.

IF your complaining that drum corps doesn't do enough "recognizable music" that's says something more about the kind of music your exposed to than it does about the kind of music drum corps put out.

Corps should release audio from their show every month. Maybe 20 seconds or 30 seconds or different parts, Maybe the same part played 3 times in the same clip. Get people familiar with the product without dishing out all the goods.

but not all drum corps fans surf the web about drum corps. Hell, my dad still cant figure out how to check the voicemail on his cell phone, but he still checks out a show if it fits his schedule. And if we're going to rely solely on fans taking the time to learn about the shows and those folks being our audience, we're in deep ####