audiodb Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) Some customers are bullheaded passionate and stuck in the past loyal Fixed. and reject change at every turn. Strawman. DCI has MANY customers it has to please and it's pretty hard this day in age, especially when you have lots of customers who want things the way they were in THEIR day, and then you have customers who want to see something new. You make it seem as if it is easy in this market to please the "customer." I agree there....it isn't easy. In practice, it is not nearly as simple as the cliches suggest. Edited January 29, 2011 by audiodb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamRam Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Fixed to correct my poor wording. I did not mean to suggest that today's corps started DCI. Yet, if there are any corps today that are wearing the ruby red slippers, and believe they have the ability to fix their own problems, it's the Group of 7 (now 8). And yet, even they certainly realize that they need the organization that is DCI in order to click their heels together 3 times and end up back at the financial equivalent of Kansas. After 40 years, I see no reason to follow or trust the elite corps directors who have taken drum corps to this point. I'd rather see if the non-elite corps have any innovative solutions (could they do worse?). But as long as the non-elites keep chasing the DCI promise land, I doubt true solutions will emerge <shrug>. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 After 40 years, I see no reason to follow or trust the elite corps directors who have taken drum corps to this point. I'd rather see if the non-elite corps have any innovative solutions (could they do worse?). But as long as the non-elites keep chasing the DCI promise land, I doubt true solutions will emerge <shrug>. I agree with this whole-heartedly, but your original contention was that DCI is not drum corps and drum corps is not DCI. Now you're saying that DCI is better drum corps with new leaders. OK, I can go with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Maybe, but if the activity is going to survive, DCI can't just cater to people who marched in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s. Let's face it, all of us are not going to live forever. They have to do SOMETHING to keep the activity alive and draw in new fans, members or whatever. True. However, that SOMETHING doesn't necessarily have to be a transformative change to the base product. For instance, someone had an idea about marketing DCI's existing product to band kids by staging clinics at shows, and offering group discounted ticket packages to draw band kids to these events by the busload. The idea was good enough that it gained support among DCI leaders, and has seen widespread implementation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamRam Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) I agree with this whole-heartedly, but your original contention was that DCI is not drum corps and drum corps is not DCI. Now you're saying that DCI is better drum corps with new leaders. Umm. My last statement reinforced my original contention. By definition the voting members of DCI are all elite corps. Have you ever seen any small corps casting DCI votes that permanently change the face of drum corps? I haven't. Once the smaller, non-elite corps stop trying to be DCI member corps, they will stop reinforcing the people making poor decisions. In essence, what I'm proposing is the exact opposite of G7/G8. They need to reorganize and refuse to participate in DCI events. Then they will be free to make decisions which benefit the vast majority of corps rather than a few elite corps. <edit> If the non-elite corps have the courage to do this, in 15-20 years they will control the marketing, distribution, and dollars. </edit> Edited January 29, 2011 by BamRam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Umm. My last statement reinforced my original contention. By definition the voting members of DCI are all elite corps. Have you ever seen any small corps casting DCI votes that permanently change the face of drum corps? I haven't. Once the smaller, non-elite corps stop trying to be DCI member corps, they will stop reinforcing the people making poor decisions. In essence, what I'm proposing is the exact opposite of G7/G8. They need to reorganize and refuse to participate in DCI events. Then they will be free to make decisions which benefit the vast majority of corps rather than a few elite corps. <edit> If the non-elite corps have the courage to do this, in 15-20 years they will control the marketing, distribution, and dollars. </edit> I'm really trying to understand your point, but you should define your word usage before we end up arguing around Mulberry's barn. In your definition who is "elite"? Who is "small" Are you referring to Open class vs. World class? And while I'm interested in this discussion if your solution requires 15-20 years IMO it's a non-starter because (again, IMO as a nobody) it's unlikely that DCI will survive that long under current circumstances. Ironically, if you're defining "small" as Open class then all they have to do is let DCI implode, if only to pick up the pieces and begin again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Reality check. What makes y' all believe drum corps should have frozen in place in ... what year was that 2002? 1992? 1982? Strawman. Music doesn't stand still. Drum corps music doesn't stand still either. Nor does anything except maybe anachronisms like fife and drum corps. Or soccer, the world's most popular spectator sport. Wanna be the equivalent of a Civil War re-enactor group? Maybe. They outdraw DCI finals. That's the reality. To return to a previous analogy, you want listeners to revert to vinyl records because the had superior audio qualities even in a CD world. You might not accept that it is progress. What you must accept is that we can't go back. Yes, we can. ($1 to Obama) Ironic that you point to fife and drum corps (which still exist), as supposed proof that we "can't go back". Just as drum corps shed many military remnants in the 70s, What military "remnants" did drum corps shed? Rifles - still there. Sabres - still there. Flags - still there. Shakos - still there. Cadet-style uniform - still there. Flag presentation - there's one. Not a convincing case for the eradication of military devices from drum corps. Not that there hasn't been an effort....it was just this past decade that the "comma" was going to make the "rifle" obsolete in DCI auxiliary. drum corps adds new elements in accord with the wider society in which it operates. Actually, no, it doesn't. Drum corps is a sport. Like most sports, contestants strive to score points while operating within the confines of the rules of the sport. Inevitably, those rules prohibit some portion of the tools that "wider society" provides, so that there is a particular challenge, or "sport", in the pursuit of achievement with limited tools. Just as soccer has no innate drive toward incorporating unlimited use of hands, drum corps has no innate drive toward incorporating new elements of society. If it did, show music would be performed in the studio, professionally mixed for playback at showtime, and contests would be judged by celebrities, audience text-messaging, or number of Facebook friends (or some combination of the three). Yes, society changes. But our sports and hobbies are not compelled to mirror every one of those changes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 So, then, why are DCI Directors saying there's a problem? Seems like you think everything's headed in the right direction. So, is there a problem, or isn't there? Acknowledging the problem isn't admitting only retrograde solutions. Drum corps' problem is the growing gap between its obviously uncontemporary style and a modern music environment that is more electronic and multimedia every day. Divorcing electronics from our future would assure a narrower niche yet. It would be equivalent to mandating in 1980 that guard must be female or must wear the same uniform as the rest of the corps. An anachronism - or rather more of one. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 It is also "reality" to have expected positive impacts on attendance by now, isn't it? All of last decade's changes were supposed to have appealed to the "modern" audience to attract more fans, more marchers, more corps. The facts say that those efforts were not the solution, despite your own personal view of "reality" Or maybe drum corps would be worse off yet. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Acknowledging the problem isn't admitting only retrograde solutions. Drum corps' problem is the growing gap between its obviously uncontemporary style and a modern music environment that is more electronic and multimedia every day. Divorcing electronics from our future would assure a narrower niche yet. It would be equivalent to mandating in 1980 that guard must be female or must wear the same uniform as the rest of the corps. An anachronism - or rather more of one. HH and yet, the most anachronistic activities in the world are the most popular. why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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