BRASSO Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) That is not true. We started working on our 1971 show at the beginning of October. We had drill rehearsals every week at the Paterson Armory through the fall and winter. As you know, most of the 70's were tough competitive years for the Cadets. No knock on your efforts, but you guys and gals in the Cadets could have started on Labor Day and you wouldn't have finished in the upper echelon of Drum Corps the following year back then, so it really didn't matter much that the ( Garfield ) Cadets started " the beginning of October " for the following year. Since the inception of the Cadets back in the 30's, most of the decades have been very good ones for the Cadets. As you and I can agree I'm sure, the 70's for the most part however were not one of them. As such, it didn't seem to mean much as to when the Cadets started their practices in the 70's for the following year. Edited April 17, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) If one were to take the ratio of the difficulty of today's shows to the amount of rehearsal time, I would venture to guess that the ratio today is much higher. That is, there MIGHT be more rehearsal time, but the difficulty is WAY WAY higher. The talent is higher today, too, and certainly more concentrated (staff AND membership). I think most unbiased observers would agree that the talent level in the top Corps is higher today than in ( say ) many of the top Corps in ( say ) the 70's. I think most unbiased observers would also agree that the top Corps of toiday have a much larger pool of talent that is available to them to draw upon as well. Few Corps, if any, in the 70's were looking at several hundred potential marcher candidates available to them for their Corps in the offseason. I've said before that there was both MORE talent marching Drum Corps in ( say) 70's than today... as well as LESS talented marchers marching Drum Corps in the 70's than today. This is because the activity had a few hundred Corps in the 70's in which the best talent was more broadly dispersed as opposed to a couple of dozen or so Corps in which the best talent is concentrated in today. The activity also had less talented marchers marching in the upper echelon of Corps in 70's because more Corps then were compelled to fill out their ranks with such marchers. Many of these marchers probably would not march today in the top Corps, as the top Corps today would have a higher level marcher talent made available to them in their off season camps. Edited April 17, 2011 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdcoast Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) I think most unbiased observers would agree that the talent level in the top Corps is higher today than in ( say ) many of the top Corps in ( say ) the 70's. I think most unbiased observers would also agree that the top Corps of toiday have a much larger pool of talent that is available to them to draw upon as well. Few Corps, if any, in the 70's were looking at several hundred potential marcher candidates available to them for their Corps in the offseason. I've said before that there was both MORE talent marching Drum Corps in ( say) 70's than today... as well as LESS talented marchers marching Drum Corps in the 70's than today. This is because the activity had a few hundred Corps in the 70's in which the best talent was more broadly dispersed as opposed to a couple of dozen or so Corps in which the best talent is concentrated in today. The activity also had less talented marchers marching in the upper echelon of Corps in 70's because more Corps then were compelled to fill out their ranks with such marchers. Many of these marchers probably would not march today in the top Corps, as the top Corps today would have a higher level marcher talent made available to them in their off season camps. Brasso, you are classic! Nothing like keeping a dead thread alive and kicking. Keep up the good work. Its all a great read. Edited April 17, 2011 by thirdcoast 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 If one were to take the ratio of the difficulty of today's shows to the amount of rehearsal time, I would venture to guess that the ratio today is much higher. That is, there MIGHT be more rehearsal time, but the difficulty is WAY WAY higher. The talent is higher today, too, and certainly more concentrated (staff AND membership). Disagree. Difficulty to talent ratio's I would say that recent corps ONLY challenge the marching and visual aspect...definitely not playing. These people can play the book pretty much flawlessly at the first or second camp or they are cut. Corps certainly practice more today than in the 70's or 80's. No one is holding a part time job, starting a month later, doing parades, and fund raisers during a season anymore. Very few corps actually cultivate starting talent anymore. Very few cadet corps exist (shame) built the realities of today why when you have access to an entire planet of people? Drum corps used to be a VERY grass root thing..not anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) Brasso, you are classic! Nothing like keeping a dead thread alive and kicking. Keep up the good work. Its all a great read. This thread of asking us for " that one solution " reminds me of the scene from the movie " City Slickers " " Curley ", the old, crusty, marlboro smoking cowboy has this dialogue with " Mitch "( Billy Crystal ) : Mitch asks Curley.... " Whats the secret of Life, Curley" ? Curley......." This ( holding up one index finger ) Mitch......." Your finger" ? Curley...." One thing. Just one thing. You stick to that, and the rest don't mean S%^***** Mitch....." but what is" the one thing" ? Curley ..." Thats for you to find out ". And so, this thread is asking us for that " one thing ". Edited April 17, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Disagree. Difficulty to talent ratio's I would say that recent corps ONLY challenge the marching and visual aspect...definitely not playing. These people can play the book pretty much flawlessly at the first or second camp or they are cut. Corps certainly practice more today than in the 70's or 80's. No one is holding a part time job, starting a month later, doing parades, and fund raisers during a season anymore. Very few corps actually cultivate starting talent anymore. Very few cadet corps exist (shame) built the realities of today why when you have access to an entire planet of people? Drum corps used to be a VERY grass root thing..not anymore. Interesting coming from someone who didn't march at that time. There was literally ONE free day in SCV 1984...the day after Finals (I spent mine riding a SCHOOL BUS from ATL to Cleveland). Everyone was expected to be "moved in" (sound familiar?) by Memorial Day weekend. We had 1st and 2nd tours, with a few days between...and we practiced. The current 24-7 model was well under way by the early 80s, at least for SCV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) Back to the original concept of that one thing... Reform the judging system to where entertainment value is a contributing factor. The experiments with the fan vote via SMS is a great thing. Do more of this. ENGAGE fans in new and interesting ways. Why not have some shows on the tour that are entirely judged by the fans? What about a celebrity judge panel for one? Too much emphasis has been placed on how to develop shows that impress a highly-sophisticated and very knowledgable audience... rather than one that will impress anyone. The design talent within the activity absolutely can do this. While we're at it... seriously, I can't keep pushing on it enough... but... guards need to explore other equipment options that ACTUALLY MAKE PROGRAMATIC SENSE. Guns and swords have absolutely nothing to do with the majority of what is put on the field these days. There are creative people in the activity... think up something else. Living overseas where this type of activity, even marching band, is very unfamiliar to most people... the feedback from most people I show it to is that this is one weird thing that doesn't make sense to them. If drum corps really wants to expand to connect with a wider range of people, designers should get feedback from a wider range of people that know absolutely nothing about the activity. Why not solicit feedback online in the form of focus groups of a broad mix of people who have absolutely no idea what drum corps is... learn from that. If you can tweak the activity to resonate with those type of people while still challenging the existing drum corps audience and judges... you've got something that has a pretty interesting future. Edited April 17, 2011 by danielray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Drum corps used to be a VERY grass root thing..not anymore. Which is a very, very good thing. Now that it is no longer 'grass roots', kids don't push pushes, they get fed, they have insurance, proper medical care, etc. Scholastic marching bands and winterguards have taken on the role of the community drum corps, but are considerably more effective at it. The fact that fewer kids are participating in summer programs is not entirely economic, it also has to do with the fact that scholastic marching bands and winterguards are more competitive than ever, and only a small segment of kids want to do this year-round, so won't join drum corps until they finish high school. One thing that could help increase the level of participation would be improved interaction between corps of different levels to help guide kids that are cut from one program to another. There are a lot of kids that are cut at camps, but don't go on to march anywhere (even though they were already prepared to) because they have this mindset that they only want to march if they can march with X corps. When a younger kids like that is cut, there should be some peer counseling on this issue by an older kid in the corps who went through a similar experience, got cut from their first audition, but went on to march somewhere else. I think kids seeing that and getting that sort of one on one perspective from another kid... could be quite effective in getting them to march. Also, it wouldn't hurt if the relationships between groups were strong enough that representatives of the other corps were right there to be able to engage with them, get them committed... rather than calling them up a week later after they have reconciled in their mind that they won't be marching that seasons. Worst case... even get them on a live Skype audition with the other corps at the camp. A kid arrives to a an audition planning to march... every kids should leave the audition planning to march... even it if isn't with the same corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 If one were to take the ratio of the difficulty of today's shows to the amount of rehearsal time, I would venture to guess that the ratio today is much higher. That is, there MIGHT be more rehearsal time, but the difficulty is WAY WAY higher. The talent is higher today, too, and certainly more concentrated (staff AND membership). Yup. Absolutely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Interesting coming from someone who didn't march at that time. There was literally ONE free day in SCV 1984...the day after Finals (I spent mine riding a SCHOOL BUS from ATL to Cleveland). Everyone was expected to be "moved in" (sound familiar?) by Memorial Day weekend. We had 1st and 2nd tours, with a few days between...and we practiced. The current 24-7 model was well under way by the early 80s, at least for SCV. I'm sorry, I marched only during the 80's , so I recant the 70's. Remember how many shows you had in a row? How many parades you used to march? How MUCH earlier the season used to start? We had move in days..of course, but I also had a part time job and marched..as did most local kids in Rockford. I'm sorry the groups today have a TON more practice time especially before their season starts. That's like another 2-3 weeks we did not have before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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