KeithHall Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I don't believe that local circuits are the answer but regionalize DC is! There has to be a way to re-grow drum corps. Educate new directors! Heck, there are tons of kids graduating corps and not all of them can go tech for Cadets, SCV, BD, Colts, etc. Give them somewhere else to grow a corps. I wouldn't want to see local circuits again just have DCI regionalize and this could help corps financially too. Yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BariBrian Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) You have all missed my original point, Not once did I say should DCI sanction smaller circuts or Divisions. I merely said wouldn't DCI benifit from NON DCI Circuts promoting those so called 15 man hornline type corps shows, so that there were someplace for the smaller,,$$ Challanged corps to compete. LOL I was NOT saying that DCI had it all wrong or anything other then could they benifit LOL. I will say this,,if the current system doesn't do something soon,,,sooner or later someones going to realize that "The Emperor" doesn't have any clothes on LOL. Being in the top twelve doesn't mean as much, if there are only twelve of ya to start. To Big Bad Bari and all those that are looking for "Sound Facts" well I have none, because I didn't think the question required research. However, I do know that Alumni corps ARE springing up all over the place, and without the finacial preasures that Mandated touring presents to corps, these alumni units seem to be thriving. Based on this and this alone, my question came about. It truely was no "Dig" to DCI, OR those associated. I realize all of what you are saying against,, is absolutly true,, so there realy is no need to be sarcastic in any way. I just asked if any one thought it would be a benifit. There was no sarcasim in my question and in no way was I downing DCI, therefore, I was under the impression that I would get some mature thought out replies. Well,, they were thought out =) As I said,, I was keeping in the theme of Historical and really was bring up old times and the haydays of D&B As for Jeff Perkins and his decision, He left it up to us. He presented it honestly to us. It was put this way. We could either tour the following year as a DCI member, where and when they told us, or take our chances the following year. He told us the finacial situation that we were in after our first year, and that we may not survive a tour with long travel possibilities. True, no one twisted our arms, still we made the decision in order to survive, as many others did in those years. We were buried that year st DCI. Lesson learned I guess. Peace Out y'all Edited February 15, 2011 by BariBrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam98 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 "I am NOT being elitist here folks... There is a hell of a lot of GREAT and CHEAP entertainment out there so do we put little Johnny and Julie out there after 15 lessons on a brass instrument and let em rip? Ya that'll fix everything... Oh Brother..." Should we put them out there after 15 lessons and let them rip? Hell, yes. How else are the non-music majors and the non-dance/performing arts majors going to get the drum corps experience and develop marching skills over and beyond what they MIGHT get in high school marching band? THAT'S the problem as I see it today and why we have gone from 400 corps in the 70s down to a handful today. The emphasis has shifted over the years from a developmental and creative experience to competitive "high art" that is out of the financial reach of today's average kid. Today's design expectations for the top 25 corps and DCI's touring model has pretty much turned the drum corps activity into an activity for the elite, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 You have all missed my original point, Not once did I say should DCI sanction smaller circuts or Divisions. I merely said wouldn't DCI benifit from NON DCI Circuts promoting those so called 15 man hornline type corps shows, so that there were someplace for the smaller,,$$ Challanged corps to compete. LOL I was NOT saying that DCI had it all wrong or anything other then could they benifit LOL. I will say this,,if the current system doesn't do something soon,,,sooner or later someones going to realize that "The Emperor" doesn't have any clothes on LOL. Being in the top twelve doesn't mean as much, if there are only twelve of ya to start. I'm with you there. As for Jeff Perkins and his decision, He left it up to us. He presented it honestly to us. It was put this way. We could either tour the following year as a DCI member, where and when they told us, or take our chances the following year. He told us the finacial situation that we were in after our first year, and that we may not survive a tour with long travel possibilities. True, no one twisted our arms, still we made the decision in order to survive, as many others did in those years. We were buried that year st DCI. Lesson learned I guess. Well, the 1976 Avant Garde situation was one of DCI's darkest moments. But because of that, we still had a 1977 Avant Garde (and '78, '79, and so on through '85). And we also developed a DCI tour scheduling process with give-and-take between the corps and the circuit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BariBrian Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) Here here!! This is very true. so,,as I said, I have been out of it for awhile. Are you saying that there is now some type of grace/forgiveness, should a member corp develop finacial difficulties? With no,,,UMmm aftershocks to said corps? Just as a side note. Avant Garde still could not afford to travel to DCI in 77, but had a very solid season at many fine shows. After that 76 season, we were one practice from folding. We were lucky that we had Jeff Perkins at the Helm. Edited February 15, 2011 by BariBrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearlsnaredrummer77 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 "I am NOT being elitist here folks... There is a hell of a lot of GREAT and CHEAP entertainment out there so do we put little Johnny and Julie out there after 15 lessons on a brass instrument and let em rip? Ya that'll fix everything... Oh Brother..." Should we put them out there after 15 lessons and let them rip? Hell, yes. How else are the non-music majors and the non-dance/performing arts majors going to get the drum corps experience and develop marching skills over and beyond what they MIGHT get in high school marching band? THAT'S the problem as I see it today and why we have gone from 400 corps in the 70s down to a handful today. The emphasis has shifted over the years from a developmental and creative experience to competitive "high art" that is out of the financial reach of today's average kid. Today's design expectations for the top 25 corps and DCI's touring model has pretty much turned the drum corps activity into an activity for the elite, in my opinion. Yes, I agree. Sometimes I wonder if elitism didn't kill junior drum corps... I miss the teaching aspect and enjoyed watching programs develop. Also, if those kids have ties to the local community you will bringing in more potential fans and spectators-$$$$. I understand some don't see entertainment value in the non-G7 corps, but I think that the general public does and would do if given the opportunity. Witness the popularity of band festivals (not comp). It doesn't have to be high 'art,' 80 brass, 150 music and dance majors and so on to be entertaining. I'm just sayin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bari Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 LOL Brianbari- I am an old phart too and I bet we wouldn't disagree so much in person... there is a lot lost in translation over the forums... And sometimes to make a point a feather or two have to be ruffled. Audiob- No I have not told them to close the C corps program yet... But arguably begining students are much cuter and more tolerable to watch when the kids are 8 to 12 years old rather than 15 plus! We have that age group in the B corps and those kids are darned good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyoldfrt Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 First, let's get one thing straight. DCI, more that any other factor, is what annihilated Junior drum corps. Given the health of the "activity", - because that was what Junior corps used to be, pre-DCI - a youth activity; the debris that remains today amounts to something akin to a gated community. On this thread I've seen the number of corps in 1972 put at 400. I'm not sure of the source of that figure, but it may come from DCI propaganda. At the height of the activity, mid 1950s to 1972, there were well in excess of 1000 drum corps in the USA, alone. There were competing corps, parade-only corps, exhibition-only corps, and standstill corps. All kinds of groups sponsored Junior corps as a youth activity; there were the American Legion Posts, the Veterans of Foreign Wars Posts, the Amvets, the Polish Legion of American Veterans, the Kiwanis, The Rotary Clubs, The Chambers of Commerce, The Catholic Church Parishes, Churchs of all faiths, the Elks Lodges, the Moose Lodges, the Knights of Columbus, the DeMolay, and hosts of other civic and service organizations. The main reasons for sponsoring a drum and bugle corps, as opposed to a band, were: 1. Corps were cheap to start, and to maintain. 2. Nobody in the unit, or in the administration or instruction staff needed to have any formal musical training. 3. Anyone could join any corps with nothing more than a desire to be there, and to work hard at learning to play drums and bugles. 4. The corps provided instruments, training, uniforms, etc 5. dues were minimal to non-existent. Most corps, even very good ones, were basically community based, mom and pop operations. The managers and administrative staff were all volunteers. The instructors worked for lunch money. Some taught several units simultaneously. DCI put an end to all of that. I was there when it all started, and I can assure you all that your unit was either in their program, or was part of the problem. Don't tell me that membership was voluntary. I call BS on that. You were in, or you were dead meat. Did many of the units lack quality? Sure they did. So what. They had a right exist before DCI. Not now. I actually had the Corps Director of a major DCI corps tell me that, in his opinion, no corps who was not actively pursuing a DCI Championship, and who lacked the where-with-all to make that pursuit a real possibly, had any right to exist. I got the impression from his delivery of this manifesto to he was quoting unwritten DCI policy. Posters here are right that Circuits were the lifeblood of competitive drum corps, They are gone beyond recall. It's way too late. Gil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphaba01 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 'DCI put an end to all of that": "Hold all phone calls". We have a winner...... Truer words have never been spoken. Elohaba WWW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BariBrian Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Big Bad Bari,, It's all good,,and everyone has a right to state their opinion. I was just taken back a bit at the tone , when up to that point I hadn't noticed much "zeal" shall we say, in the opinions LOL. I am not here trying to condem DCI, but they have made some serious mistakes under the guise of "The Good of Drum corp" when it really came down to the Good of the Few that could afford what they thought was fair. The prize (DCI membership) was so attractive, that many corps went broke, trying to measure up,,,trying to be somthing that they were not possibly ready for. Those corps had it good in their little (and sometimes big) Circuts. They would travel to these shows, that sometimes even provided parade money which helped in the cost of travel. I can't speak for all corps,,but I can tell you that I belonged to a circut that had well over thirty corps that was in 73 through 75,,DCI was still in it's infancy. As the years went one and DCI started to mandate what member corps could and couldn't do,,these circuts started to dry up. This is somthing that I do not have "Sound Facts" on. Sorry, it was somthing that I experienced and witnessed. It was harsher here in the east simply because there were so many corps here. I lived in a town that had 7 drum corps in it in the late 60's and early 70s. I use to think that was unique until I started competing outside of that little world. This is of course "closing the barn doors after the horses got out", as they say. And whats past will probably never come back, given the economy. DCI will never release that strangle hold they have on the big Piece of the pie that brings the money into them and rightly so. (who in their right mind would let the golden goose go) But perhaps if they stoped mandating the expensive tours and encourged the smaller corps to compete within areas that they couls afford to travel to, fewer corps would fade away because of money issues, which in my opinon is the real cause of the feeble amount of good competetive corps. The Talent these days IS superior thats true, but the status of being one of the best in the world really means nothing (in my opinion) if you achieve it year after year with fewer & fewer quality corps competeing for it. PS. Gil,, you're spot on IMO Edited February 17, 2011 by BariBrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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