audiodb Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Since 1940, over 110 million Americans have participated in school bands. 2.2 million middle & high school students are currently enrolled as band members in the U.S. 300,000 college students are also enrolled. There are approximately 27,000 school marching bands nationally. Internationally, there are approximately 10,000 school marching bands in 20 countries. 1 million people watch The Rose Bowl Parade in person with a combined worldwide audience of over 300 million in 90 countries. http://thesoundofperfection.com/support-music-education/ Even if the 27,000 number is accurate, so what? Less than 20% of that number are competitive programs. The rest only do football halftimes (often with very limited drill), or an occasional parade. That is a hell of a lot of kids participating in marching band... 2.2 million kids in band programs in the country is huge. But again, the overwhelming majority of those band kids don't have a competitive MB program available to them. And of course, there are over ten times as many kids that aren't in band programs. With 300,000 college students enrolled in band programs... and only a small fraction of those participating in drum corps... this indicates that there is some serious gap that needs to be bridged. My guess is that there is a significant number of kids out there that have the talent and interest to participate in drum corps, but lack the financial means when combined with other financial demands like studies. I'm only guessing, but these numbers would probably be enough to fill a few full corps. It could be quite valuable to conduct an informal survey of these college band students to get a better understanding of why they don't participate and see how to bridge that gap. Information on any such non-marching demographic ought to be of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubaJon Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) I think there a number of reasons, not just one. A sample: Fewer junior age corps to age out of prior to joining a DCA corps. The old progression from junior-to-senior just isn't the norm anymore. Consider that back in the day there were a couple of hundred junior corps in the NY Metro area, more or less, that fed into a relative handful of senior corps, so even then the percentage moving from junior to senior was pretty low. Cost of DCI tour is certainly a factor. You can get a VERY good experience in some of the DCA corps at a fraction the cost of DCI, if summer marching/music is your thing. Improving reputation of DCA at least in my area. For a looong time the 'view' of DCA was hardly one supportive of integrating minors. That has undergone a huge, and welcome, change over time. BTW...lots of junior age kids did march DCA back in the day. After Garfield fired George Tuthill after the 71 season, for example, a good chunk of our drumline moved to the Cabs where he was teaching...none of them close to being overage. Yes back in the day lots of junior age marched DCA. But we are talking about the here and the now. I am quite sure that you can get a very good experience marching DCA corps, I said that I did myself. But my point is, a huge selling point to the younger folks to join DCA is to get ready for DCI. I have seen pleanty of senior corps booths set up at WGI or marching events, and i always take the time to talk to them, and they all use that selling point. And for a majority of of those corps, I am sorry, but that simply is not true. And I do have some know how because i did march both. And i have spoken to pleanty of peers about the same thing. DCA is growing, and that is great! But if we are wanting to save drum corps as an activity, not just as DCI, DCA has room and opportunity to grow, and flourish, along with DCI. I have even visited the DCA forums, and even over there, there is talk about not enough competition. Honestly one thing that could make DCA a bigger deal, is retention from the DCI age outs. Does anyone have any numbers on the retention rate for folks who march DCA directly from DCI? I only bring up this crude point, because if we are really worried about drum corps coming to an end, and want to save it, then we need to look at not just one circuit or the other but the activity as a whole. We need to look at the correlations to why drum corps is on the decline, and how to save it. A major concern are members dues in DCI. And it is not like they are too high, they are where they need to be, but that doesnt mean that because the price is right, everyone can afford it. And since dues arent coming down anytime soon, if ever, we should look at making alternatives more appealing to those who cant meet the fiscal responsibility of a world or open class corps. Without ruining the rich history and heritage of DCA. The question is... how? Perhaps making a new class in either DCI or DCA that targets the talented that would love to march but cant because of the financial obligation. Edited April 25, 2011 by TubaJon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I have seen enough DCA to understand the performance level of the activity. Example... DCA champs in 2009 basically did a good chunk of a show my old high school band (which never went to BOA or any similar shows) did more than 20 years ago, except dirtier and with less demand (even still...the guard dropped more than the Enola Gay, and the battery was fuzzier than a 13 year old trying to grow a mustache). Actually, the 13-year-old's face will have very little fuzz. Is this a backhanded compliment? I am just saying that with so many claiming that DCA is the future... you're going to have a hell of a time recruiting kids to participate in any significant number and on a national level. The highest level of performance of DCA groups is well below hundreds of high school bands. The same cannot be said about DCI corps. I see it is now in vogue to insult DCA. This raises a couple of questions: 1. Have you actually seen the performances you insult in person, or are you just referring to videos? 2. Do you even bother to watch any of the smaller/lesser marching bands, or do you just cherry-pick from the top 1% of the activity? 3. For someone who claims better ideas and more constructive uses for his time, why spend it on this tirade against the all-age activity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 While it does have a different purpose and fills a different niche, that is not the same niche as DCI. Since DCA is doing just fine thanks, and we're discussing the possible demise of DCI (which the touring model makes inevitable, IMHO) exactly what niche is it that DCI will be filling? Fond memories? DCI technical achievement is not in question. Its financial viablility is. So rather than throw out unsupportable and inconsequential insults about what DCA corps can do, perhaps it would be more helpful to address the central issue of DCI's future or lack thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Since DCA is doing just fine thanks, and we're discussing the possible demise of DCI (which the touring model makes inevitable, IMHO) exactly what niche is it that DCI will be filling? Fond memories? DCI technical achievement is not in question. Its financial viablility is. So rather than throw out unsupportable and inconsequential insults about what DCA corps can do, perhaps it would be more helpful to address the central issue of DCI's future or lack thereof. Competitive junior drum corps is not going anywhere, likely ever. DCI is fine, just needs tweaking. The sky isn't falling. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I've seen DCA performed live at every show on tour in 2008 and have seen a couple finals DVDs. "Every show on tour"? DCA doesn't "tour", and no one could possibly see every DCA show now that they are occurring on the same days in several distant regions. You must be referring to the occasional all-age corps performing at a DCI show, then. So you've seen the Vigilantes in July, and are extrapolating based entirely on that and a couple of DVDs? Brilliant! A midlevel high school band could give the DCA champs a run for their money and probably marches a much more difficult show. Not to mention the daily practice on a HS program compared to the once or twice a month schedule of a DCA corps. Ludicrous. Name one DCA corps that practices only once or twice a month during the season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 1. Have you actually seen the performances you insult in person, or are you just referring to videos? Yes. 2. Do you even bother to watch any of the smaller/lesser marching bands, or do you just cherry-pick from the top 1% of the activity? Of course I have. 3. For someone who claims better ideas and more constructive uses for his time, why spend it on this tirade against the all-age activity? Just pointing out that it is not really a possible alternative to competitive junior drum corps. They fill 2 completely different and only barely overlapping niches. High school marching band has more in common with competitive junior drum corps than DCA does. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) Competitive junior drum corps is not going anywhere, likely ever. DCI is fine, just needs tweaking. The sky isn't falling. The existence of this thread, and the quotes of falling attendance would argue otherwise. The tweaking you mention, in the form of electronics, singing, etc, isn't working. In fact, it's counter productive on a few fronts. A major overhaul is in order or DCI will not exist much longer. Facing the truth can be difficult. DCI needs more corps but is steadily shrinking because the touring model is not viable, especially for startups. Until they address that no amount of grandiose posturing about being an art form and expanding the design toolkit will save DCI. They have to manage it more like a business and face the hard business reality that the direction for the past few decades has shrunk the number of corps and hence the future base, has alienated long standing fans, and further marginalized what was once a widespread and popular activity into the "niche" bracket. That's just poor management and no amount of synthesizers, guitars or self-aggrandizing G8 "special" tours will save it. DCI had better learn from DCA quickly or it will be just a fading memory and a stack of unpaid bills very, very soon.... Edited April 25, 2011 by Grandpa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) The existence of this thread, and the quotes of falling attendance would argue otherwise. Well, it really isn't. The tweaking you mention, in the form of electronics, singing, etc, isn't working. In fact, it's counter productive on a few fronts. A major overhaul is in order or DCI will not exist much longer. Facing the truth can be difficult. Who said anything about electronics or singing? I think singing is generally cheesy and ineffective... like wearing plaid pants. But, I don't think either should be restricted. People have the absolute right to be cheesy. About amplification... makes absolute sense for the pit... but miced brass solos are for #######. But, I don't think it should be restricted. Pople have the absolute right to be #######. DCI needs more corps but is steadily shrinking because the touring model is not viable, especially for startups. More corps is not a solution. People won't turn out simply to watch more corps. In fact, I think it will have an adverse effect on attendance. DCI needs LESS corps - 24 is fine - but all performing on the highest level. Edited April 25, 2011 by danielray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) More corps is not a solution. People won't turn out simply to watch more corps. In fact, I think it will have an adverse effect on attendance. DCI needs LESS corps - 24 is fine - but all performing on the highest level. Just what DCI needs, less shows over the summer so less chances for people to see the corps. And less spots so less chances for young people to actually march. OK, that makes DCI a business, screw the people working for the business. Edit: Ahhhh got my first negative vote..... Must be hitting the nerves just right. Edited April 25, 2011 by JimF-LowBari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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