Plan9 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I was more or less referring to his predictions, in this specific case i do believe he is wrong as to why those results happened, i dont believe it was politics at all. In fact i think thast night was the closest to agreable scoring for a majority of people yet this year. My argument is, that, politics can be a factor sometimes. but more often than not, its not a desiding factor. I guess that's the danger of saying someone's post is "right"...people tend to think you're agreeing. And of course...politics (in its many forms) is involved in everything we do in life. But it gets very tiring when it's trotted out so often on these boards. It's unmeasurable, entirely unsubstantiated and just a poor argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastyWaves Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Okay but can we agree that polotics does exist, to a degree, in DCI? If so then maybe just sometimes when someone hollars out my corps got beat cuz of politics, they could be right. maybe not this time, but not everytime someone cries WOLF! is wrong. I disagree for several reasons: 1) What does ANY judge have to gain from "favoring" a corps over another? If General effect judge (1) in his heart feels that Corps B is the best, what would he/she have to gain by giving Corps A the higher score? Its not pro sports or something like that where there is a ton of money to be made. An NFL ref for effecting the outcome of a game might stand to make a wad of cash in some crooked shady deal, but that kind of money does not exist in drum corps 2) The "power people" in Drum Corps are spread over several corps. Blue Devils have some, Cadets have some, Cavaliers, Blue coats, Blue Stars, Scouts, Crown. Many of these people have skipped around from corps to corps over the years. Why wouldn't that implied "political favoritism" follow them around? If someone perceives that Drum Corps Designer-X gets special treatment and score favors during his 15 years with Corps-A, why would that same treatment not continue when he moved on to the next corps? Do "politics" exist? I really do not know. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest it. The only "politics" I hear of in this activity are "Sour grapes" when someone's corps does not win. Think me naive if you want, but show me some evidence. Show me some cash transactions or some shady emails between judges and drum corps directors. If those things exist, they can be found. Just ask NFL and College head coaches, recruiters for major programs, and politicians. They are all ALWAYS found out. I doubt the drum corps community has any secret keeping power or masterful communication prowess which cannot be somehow tracked. Show me where Blue Devils beat crown (as an example) because of some transfer of money, power, or other form of compensation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubaJon Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I disagree for several reasons: 1) What does ANY judge have to gain from "favoring" a corps over another? If General effect judge (1) in his heart feels that Corps B is the best, what would he/she have to gain by giving Corps A the higher score? Its not pro sports or something like that where there is a ton of money to be made. An NFL ref for effecting the outcome of a game might stand to make a wad of cash in some crooked shady deal, but that kind of money does not exist in drum corps 2) The "power people" in Drum Corps are spread over several corps. Blue Devils have some, Cadets have some, Cavaliers, Blue coats, Blue Stars, Scouts, Crown. Many of these people have skipped around from corps to corps over the years. Why wouldn't that implied "political favoritism" follow them around? If someone perceives that Drum Corps Designer-X gets special treatment and score favors during his 15 years with Corps-A, why would that same treatment not continue when he moved on to the next corps? Do "politics" exist? I really do not know. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest it. The only "politics" I hear of in this activity are "Sour grapes" when someone's corps does not win. Think me naive if you want, but show me some evidence. Show me some cash transactions or some shady emails between judges and drum corps directors. If those things exist, they can be found. Just ask NFL and College head coaches, recruiters for major programs, and politicians. They are all ALWAYS found out. I doubt the drum corps community has any secret keeping power or masterful communication prowess which cannot be somehow tracked. Show me where Blue Devils beat crown (as an example) because of some transfer of money, power, or other form of compensation. Just cuz money isnt involved, doesnt mean things cant get shady. and sorry, i dont have authorization to view emails or anything like that. But do you have solid eveidence that it is not happening? We should also define "politics", can it be defined as possibly a judge consistantly judging against the norm, could it be some sub consiouse idea that hey i once worked with this director, and hated working with them, -.01? I think that the word politics gets used way to loosely, i think what a lot of people mean when they say its politics, is really, its human. There is no way to prove eachother right or wrong in this situation. But i would like to say that i would like to change my personal terminology of "politics" to "human". As should a lot of folks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstar82 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 oh yeah. Because on dCP, "if MY corps wins, the system works.... but if MY corps LOSES, its because of BS politics and bad judging.". lol never fails! This is the most accurate statement ever posted on dcp! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) I doubt the drum corps community has any secret keeping power or masterful communication prowess which cannot be somehow tracked. This part anyway is undeniably true. The idea that a small handful of Corps Directors could arrange a secret meeting behind closed doors with a Power Point Presentation and a scheme for themselves in a quest at a DCI power grab... and believe that somehow that info would not be made public re. such a scheme, those days have thankfully come and gone. Such meetings can indeed now be quickly tracked and made public. And this is a refreshing and healthy change, imo. Edited July 24, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtu0sity Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 OMG Crown. Spectacular show tonight. WOW!!! One thing that really tells me when a corps is incredible, is when I don't care for the show at the beginning of the season, and by midway through I love a show. Both Blue Devils and Carolina Crown have done that this year. I didn't care for either show at the beginning of the season, and I really thought it was going to be between Cavaliers and Cadets. I have to say this year, whoever comes in 4th place at finals could be within 3 tenths of a point of the corps that wins. i was going to +1 this. but i lost my privileges to +1 anymore posts for today. lmao. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeldrum Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I sold an extra ticket to a guy who marched in the 80s but hasn't seen a show since 93. He had some great comments about the differences in shows now that I thought I'd share. "Is it just me or are the hornlines not that loud? I thought I'd get my face peeled off being indoors sitting on the 50." I explained that they switched to Bb horns and he said "well that explains why they're in tune." "I can't get use to all these electronics! It's louder than the horns......" "The drumlines are playing much harder stuff than we ever did......" "Wow they got a lot of contras these days!" I explained that they expanded to 150 members. He said "where did they add the most, to the guard? cause I don't hear the extras in the hornlines." "The drills are so fast!" "Hey there's ScoJo! I marched for him at Vanguard." I never knew he was there. "Great to see snarelines with more than 7 again...." Some interesting perspectives from someone that's been away for a while.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasgroh Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 This part anyway is undeniably true. The idea that a small handful of Corps Directors could arrange a secret meeting behind closed doors with a Power Point Presentation and a scheme for themselves in a quest at a DCI power grab... and believe that somehow that info would not be made public re. such a scheme, those days have thankfully come and gone. Such meetings can indeed now be quickly tracked and made public. And this is a refreshing and healthy change, imo. ...I with you, but a Skype conference call (or a regular phone one, for that matter) could and would be easy to execute, and other than the fact that it's trackable, *content* would not be documented (at least by the provider). So, *those* days are still here...and it's much easier than getting warm bodies together in the same place. cg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtu0sity Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 OK. so here's my $0.02 Great show! I enjoyed every single performance! From the bottom to the top! I'm definitely a BD homer and I disliked the show at first but wow! It has gotten tons better! And Crown entertained the s*** out of me!!! I disliked that show at first as well but man they were amazing! :) Great performances from everybody last night!!! This summer is getting intense at every placement! Good luck on the rest of your tour everybody! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 This part anyway is undeniably true. The idea that a small handful of Corps Directors could arrange a secret meeting behind closed doors with a Power Point Presentation and a scheme for themselves in a quest at a DCI power grab... and believe that somehow that info would not be made public re. such a scheme, those days have thankfully come and gone. Such meetings can indeed now be quickly tracked and made public. And this is a refreshing and healthy change, imo. This certainly has been beaten to death on DCP so we don't need to dredge it up here but.....not everyone agrees with you on the power grab part. It doesn't take a genius to see that many of the innovations on that PPT presentation are happening this year with some high marks. Not all of it worked as invisioned but it is a big step in the right direction. I will continue to see the G7 effort as a means of making the activity better and exposing it to a larger market. Having a WikiDCPedia in place may give you comfort but it is not as important as having leadership and innovation to refresh this great activity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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