BRASSO Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) No matter what system DCI employs it will be subjective and open to someone else's opinion. That's the nature of the activity and there's no getting around it. The world of ice skating employs an interesting concept known as the "compulsories" where (as I understand it) each competitor has to demonstrate specific prescribed skills that are well documented. These count towards the final score. I've often wondered what that would look like in our world. Pre-DCI used to have some of this with "inspections". Aside from bribing each other and competitors trying to injure each other, the world of ice skating offers some interesting approaches. Figure Skating Cumpulsories : now out Figure Skating bribery and injuring other competitors, judges : now in. Nah,... not a good judging model for DCI to follow, imo. Edited July 8, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amusicman Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 R there going to be videos on the fan network from this contest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwscv87 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 so you think the judges have pre-slotted the different corps into a likely score range? I agree, but that's not how it should be. No - I would not say it that way at all. "Pre-slotted", to me, means the results are pre-determined. All I am really saying is that a judge is aware that several corps are likely to fit within a similar range. If corps A comes on early and is close to maxing out box 4, but there are a couple others with similar potential you might hand out a 7.7 instead of a 7.8 or 7.9 to "leave room". That doesn't mean he/she will use that room. If the other corps performance is not up to corps A then they get a 7.6 or 7.5 (or whatever). People use the term "numbers management". I think that is more accurate than slotting. Numbers management within the context of the definitions attached to any box. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 No - I would not say it that way at all. "Pre-slotted", to me, means the results are pre-determined. All I am really saying is that a judge is aware that several corps are likely to fit within a similar range. If corps A comes on early and is close to maxing out box 4, but there are a couple others with similar potential you might hand out a 7.7 instead of a 7.8 or 7.9 to "leave room". That doesn't mean he/she will use that room. If the other corps performance is not up to corps A then they get a 7.6 or 7.5 (or whatever). People use the term "numbers management". I think that is more accurate than slotting. Numbers management within the context of the definitions attached to any box. Agree, good description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Crown was awesome. Hornline is the best, just so balanced and in tune. Guard, are you kidding me the stuff your being asked to do is amazing and your performing it do well.percussion is thrown down also. Love the show, the demand is through the roof with the body work and playing. Visually stunning as well much improved over last yea. Still nerds something at the end but you guys are good and know what to do. I was there. Let's go over it, hit by hit. It's very simple: Every single hit has the entire hornline at, or in front of, the front hash, except once, where maybe 10 trumpets we a few steps behind (side 1). Not to mention Crown's propensity to stick to the basics, harmonically: D minor, A Major, Bb Major....ok,ok,we get it: Crown's very good at playing in Bb. Balance? When you talk about balance this way, what you really mean is "I prefer Crown's sound." And that's fine...just don't try to imply that other hornlines are NOT balanced. You want difficult? Let's count the number of times Bluecoats hornline is entirely in front of the front hash for a hit: 0. When they form the wedge and play loud the first time, they are...but the hit is actually during the rays...at least 16 players (all fat low brass) behind the front hash. And notice the body movement during all of it. Every other hit has differeing numbers of hornline members behind the front hash...did u notice how loud the hornline was during the quadrant section? Even the last set of the show still has a few players behind the front hash! Don't get me wrong: I LOVE CROWN'S HORNLINE. I've played the real Rachy pieces in orchestra (bass bone). I "get it." But Bloo's harmonic language, color palette, exposure and technical sophistication is way beyond what Crown is doing (and has done). Bloo won GE Music. That made sense, and shows that the judge really is looking at the sheet. On the field, the judge basically said "Bloo is closer to Madison (0.1 ahead) than Crown (0.3 behind)." That's a complete joke. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTuba Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I was there. Let's go over it, hit by hit. It's very simple: Every single hit has the entire hornline at, or in front of, the front hash, except once, where maybe 10 trumpets we a few steps behind (side 1). Not to mention Crown's propensity to stick to the basics, harmonically: D minor, A Major, Bb Major....ok,ok,we get it: Crown's very good at playing in Bb. Balance? When you talk about balance this way, what you really mean is "I prefer Crown's sound." And that's fine...just don't try to imply that other hornlines are NOT balanced. You want difficult? Let's count the number of times Bluecoats hornline is entirely in front of the front hash for a hit: 0. When they form the wedge and play loud the first time, they are...but the hit is actually during the rays...at least 16 players (all fat low brass) behind the front hash. And notice the body movement during all of it. Every other hit has differeing numbers of hornline members behind the front hash...did u notice how loud the hornline was during the quadrant section? Even the last set of the show still has a few players behind the front hash! Don't get me wrong: I LOVE CROWN'S HORNLINE. I've played the real Rachy pieces in orchestra (bass bone). I "get it." But Bloo's harmonic language, color palette, exposure and technical sophistication is way beyond what Crown is doing (and has done). Bloo won GE Music. That made sense, and shows that the judge really is looking at the sheet. On the field, the judge basically said "Bloo is closer to Madison (0.1 ahead) than Crown (0.3 behind)." That's a complete joke. I agree with you. And I actually find Bloo's hornline is much more balanced than Crown's in respect to presence of the bass voices up through the soprano. That is, every voice is present in the music and can be distinguished from one another. The only problem I find with Crown's hornline is that the way their music is arranged, they're playing up in the staff or around the top of the staff on their sustained chords, and being they like to stay in the tonal centers they do, the tuba sound blends in with the euphs and baris often times. The funny thing is, if a few players would drop the octave, their sound quality would become so much richer. These are my two favorite corps, and IMO the two of the best, if not the best, sounding and performing hornlines this year. Just an honest observation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nero14 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I was there. Let's go over it, hit by hit. It's very simple: Every single hit has the entire hornline at, or in front of, the front hash, except once, where maybe 10 trumpets we a few steps behind (side 1). Not to mention Crown's propensity to stick to the basics, harmonically: D minor, A Major, Bb Major....ok,ok,we get it: Crown's very good at playing in Bb. Balance? When you talk about balance this way, what you really mean is "I prefer Crown's sound." And that's fine...just don't try to imply that other hornlines are NOT balanced. You want difficult? Let's count the number of times Bluecoats hornline is entirely in front of the front hash for a hit: 0. When they form the wedge and play loud the first time, they are...but the hit is actually during the rays...at least 16 players (all fat low brass) behind the front hash. And notice the body movement during all of it. Every other hit has differeing numbers of hornline members behind the front hash...did u notice how loud the hornline was during the quadrant section? Even the last set of the show still has a few players behind the front hash! Don't get me wrong: I LOVE CROWN'S HORNLINE. I've played the real Rachy pieces in orchestra (bass bone). I "get it." But Bloo's harmonic language, color palette, exposure and technical sophistication is way beyond what Crown is doing (and has done). Bloo won GE Music. That made sense, and shows that the judge really is looking at the sheet. On the field, the judge basically said "Bloo is closer to Madison (0.1 ahead) than Crown (0.3 behind)." That's a complete joke. I heart Bruckner. :worthy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superOOk Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Anyone else feel that madison kind of got swallowed up in the big stadium? It had a much different feel that small stadium on the east coast. Watching the VODs right now...and...yes, I am a bit surprised after watching the Quincy, MA show and being blown away by Madison's sound. Bluecoats seemed to have the most "intense" sound, followed by Crown. Crown needs to seriously re-think the last 1/3 of the show (similar to Bluecoats actually). BTW, I am shocked to see the Bluecoats show improve so much since Michigan City, IN. I still don't think it is going to connect with the crowd like other shows this year -- I can compare it do SCV's show this year -- they are doing things that are technically out of this world. I think the judges are going to rank Bluecoats quite higher than most people think at the end of the season, even though the crowd won't agree. I wish Bluecoats would play to the crowd with all of the technical prowess...the first year they figure out that the crowd is part of the equation, they will win it. I feel like since 2001 they have built this monster technical machine, they have the talent and now they just need to find the right show :) Here is my advice for a championship show: Nutville, Sing Sing Sing, and then finish with an extended version of Creep. Not sure if that all goes together though...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I get that Spirit's trying to evoke old school gumshoe movies, but the vocal effects are a little too corny for a show about film noir. If they're going to include vocals, and use music from Chinatown, they might as well throw in "My sister!" (slap) "My daughter!" (slap) "My sister and my daughter!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cop Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Watching the VODs right now...and...yes, I am a bit surprised after watching the Quincy, MA show and being blown away by Madison's sound. Bluecoats seemed to have the most "intense" sound, followed by Crown. Crown needs to seriously re-think the last 1/3 of the show (similar to Bluecoats actually). BTW, I am shocked to see the Bluecoats show improve so much since Michigan City, IN. I still don't think it is going to connect with the crowd like other shows this year -- I can compare it do SCV's show this year -- they are doing things that are technically out of this world. I think the judges are going to rank Bluecoats quite higher than most people think at the end of the season, even though the crowd won't agree. I wish Bluecoats would play to the crowd with all of the technical prowess...the first year they figure out that the crowd is part of the equation, they will win it. I feel like since 2001 they have built this monster technical machine, they have the talent and now they just need to find the right show :) Here is my advice for a championship show: Nutville, Sing Sing Sing, and then finish with an extended version of Creep. Not sure if that all goes together though...lol VOD's are filmed well.. nice to see how things are moving along for all... what a great year.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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