liebot Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) A fair bit of Jay-Z's lyrics to the song are about how wonderful he thinks he is: he's "the new Sinatra", he "made you [i.e., New York] hot", and he "made the Yankee cap more famous than a Yankee can". (I'll grant that an enormous ego can thrilling to witness, be it Falstaff, or Big and Rich, or, if you'll pardon this old man, Eminem or Kanye West; but Jay-Z has nothing like the forceful personality needed to match his masturbatory lyrics.) Then, in contrast to his fame and fortune, Jay-Z observes that New York is hell for most people who come there hoping to succeed, as for example: "Mommy took a bus trip, now she got her bust out / Everybody ride her just like a bus route." Ain't he grand? On the other hand, the line you specifically question (sung by Alicia Keys) is listed on some websites as "concrete junge where dreams are made, oh", which does work, filler syllable notwithstanding. Eh, I think Jay-Z has earned the right to claim most of those things. I wouldn't be surprised to hear them playing "Empire State of Mind" following "New York, New York" at Yankees games sometime down the line (in fact, I think they have done it already). And this is the same guy that's been calling himself the best rapper alive for years. He may not have the overstated grandiosity of a Kanye West or a Lil Wayne, but I think that's because his persona has always been that of the supreme businessman. . . which he is, compared to those two (and Eminem). I think he has a forceful personality, just not one that screams "ME ME ME ME" constantly like Kanye. I just don't buy the "concrete jungle where dreams are made, oh" thing. Listen to the song, that's not what she says. Edited July 11, 2011 by liebot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
behold888 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) Oh, THAT'S why I'm not "getting" it...I was wondering what all the fuss was about with this closer. I have seen it several times on FN (before the copyright issues) and it just didn't do much for me at all. So you have to know the words to really "get" it? That's disappointing. I guess I will never "get" it, though I can say the song is starting to grow on me since I have been going to a certain un-mentionable website to listen to it since the copyright issues. At any rate, I hope the Scouts do awesome this year (I'm sure they will probably jump up a few spots.) If you can find the version "somewhere online" of Alicia Keys performing it, listen to the words, especially the chorus. To me, it just fills me up with hope of what is possible. "New York: concrete jungle where dreams are made, there's nothing you can't do." ... and I think THAT'S why people love this closer. (but you have to know the words) Edited July 11, 2011 by behold888 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nero14 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Or 96, or 99. this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedawn Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 To be completely honest, I think that their "Empire State of Mind" is possibly the squarest thing I've ever heard in DCI. The baritone solo makes me cringe. A lot. Send the corps to spend a few hours in Bed-Stuy or (real) Harlem or any of the grittier places in the city, and I think things might change a bit? My favorite part: MDMA got you feeling like a champion The city never sleeps Better slip you an Ambien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Madison's closer is a throw back style of closer. It is a powerful tear jerking piece of music. I have not heard a closer this good in at least 30 years. It's a good one, for sure; I look forward to them "finishing" their show (I can't imagine what's on the field now is the final 'version' of this production), and not until then can we truly judge how it sits. I'm admittedly not that familiar with the original tune, so the significance of the lyrics are lost on me. But Madison does a great job of making the arrangement their own and making it work for the show. That all being said, I'm with other posters on here that the back chunk of their show feels a bit flat thematically. I know they have a tricky job of turning 9/11 & its impact on NY and the rest of the country into a toe-tapping park and bark ending. Regardless, it just doesn't do much for me other than I like (most of) the arrangement of the closer, up until the last big impact. Like I said, I'm kinda giving them the benefit of the doubt that the show is a work in progress, and until they get to Indy we won't be able to fairly critique the impact of the closer. It has potential, but IMO it's the current version of the closer isn't maxing out said potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastknight Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 It's a good one, for sure; I look forward to them "finishing" their show (I can't imagine what's on the field now is the final 'version' of this production), and not until then can we truly judge how it sits. I'm admittedly not that familiar with the original tune, so the significance of the lyrics are lost on me. But Madison does a great job of making the arrangement their own and making it work for the show. That all being said, I'm with other posters on here that the back chunk of their show feels a bit flat thematically. I know they have a tricky job of turning 9/11 & its impact on NY and the rest of the country into a toe-tapping park and bark ending. Regardless, it just doesn't do much for me other than I like (most of) the arrangement of the closer, up until the last big impact. Like I said, I'm kinda giving them the benefit of the doubt that the show is a work in progress, and until they get to Indy we won't be able to fairly critique the impact of the closer. It has potential, but IMO it's the current version of the closer isn't maxing out said potential. MY OPINION: The Alicia Keys cut of this has a real quality I'd call "positive defiance". Somehow she lost JayZ's self-absorption along the way. I think that's the feel Madison brings to the field. It captures some of the New York spirit following 9/11. Now all they need is Rudy Guliani in the center of the company front. (jk) I, too, have doubted from the forst hearing that this was "the" ending for this song. Time will tell. (I do get the vibe as the season wears on that those listening are getting that feeling, too.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I just don't buy the "concrete jungle where dreams are made, oh" thing. Listen to the song, that's not what she says. Fair enough. I've heard the song plenty of times, and had interpreted the line the same way as you, anyway, but was surprised to find the lyric listed that way, which would be a tiny improvement on what she actually sings. Eh, I think Jay-Z has earned the right to claim most of those things. I wouldn't be surprised to hear them playing "Empire State of Mind" following "New York, New York" at Yankees games sometime down the line (in fact, I think they have done it already). And this is the same guy that's been calling himself the best rapper alive for years. Well, I think if, say, the Blue Devils performed a show whose theme was that DCI is wonderful because they've been champions fourteen times over while most other corps are losers and sell-outs ("Everybody ride her just like a bus route"), that we might not find it so admirable, no matter that they've arguably "earned the right" to hold that attitude. Thus my gratitude that the Scouts have had nothing to do with the lousy lyrics. Now if they could only cut out the piano! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQuinn Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Eh, I think Jay-Z has earned the right to claim most of those things. I wouldn't be surprised to hear them playing "Empire State of Mind" following "New York, New York" at Yankees games sometime down the line (in fact, I think they have done it already). And this is the same guy that's been calling himself the best rapper alive for years. He may not have the overstated grandiosity of a Kanye West or a Lil Wayne, but I think that's because his persona has always been that of the supreme businessman. . . which he is, compared to those two (and Eminem). I think he has a forceful personality, just not one that screams "ME ME ME ME" constantly like Kanye. I just don't buy the "concrete jungle where dreams are made, oh" thing. Listen to the song, that's not what she says. Jay-Z is a gigantic ooooosh with a capital D. Hip Hop is not an art form. Alicia Keys made beautiful music out of his stupid rant. The Scouts play the hell out of it and I love it. Is it the best closer ever? Probably not but it's pretty ###### good to me! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adub Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I'd say the start of the closer and first impact hit on Empire give it the opportunity to be one of the best closers in recent memory. However, I do agree with most of the posters saying that it tends to get lost by the end of the song. I feel like it may be a drill thing more than a musical issue at the end. However that first impact on Empire gives me chills everytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Let the kids just play on this one. Sometimes corps play some stuff too perfectly, stuff that shouldn't be even close to perfect. This is one that should be a bit more dirty... more loose... less controlled. Forget Dr. Beat on this chart. Too tight and it sounds like a Kids Incorporated cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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