liebot Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) Jay-Z is a gigantic ooooosh with a capital D. Hip Hop is not an art form. Alicia Keys made beautiful music out of his stupid rant. The Scouts play the hell out of it and I love it. Is it the best closer ever? Probably not but it's pretty ###### good to me! Closed-minded much? I bet you think Jackson Pollock was a hack, too. Edited July 11, 2011 by liebot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFZFAN Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Closed-minded much? I bet you think Jackson Pollock was a hack, too. Wow - She doesn't like hip hop - good for her! It's crap..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Closed-minded much? I bet you think Jackson Pollock was a hack, too. It's not close-minded to dislike any particular artist or even an entire genre of art. There are hacks and wrong turns aplenty in the history of creative expression, many of which were acclaimed in their day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liebot Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Wow - She doesn't like hip hop - good for her! It's crap..... It's not close-minded to dislike any particular artist or even an entire genre of art. There are hacks and wrong turns aplenty in the history of creative expression, many of which were acclaimed in their day. It's one thing to dislike, it's another to say "it's not art." Who made you the arbiter of what is and is not art? Edit: Answer: Nobody did. And if you think you have an answer, congratulations, because you've just solved a puzzle that philosophers have been arguing about for years, and so-called "artists" of the mid-late 20th Century spent most of their careers trying to untangle. Art? Edited July 12, 2011 by liebot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Art? Can't say, but goes hella good with a grilled cheese sandwich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) It's one thing to dislike, it's another to say "it's not art." Who made you the arbiter of what is and is not art? If no one can say that something isn't art, then no one can say that something is art. Long before Warhol, there was Duchamp, who hung a urinal on a gallery wall in 1917 and titled it Fountain. Art? Your philosophers can argue about it. But I do like this exchange from John Logan's play, Red, between painter Mark Rothko and his (fictional) assistant, Ken: - - - - - - - - - - Rothko: You really think Andy Warhol will be hanging in museums in a hundred years alongside Bruegels and Vermeers? Ken: He is hanging alongside Rothko now. - - - - - - - - - - Bibliographical note: I take that passage from this review, which closes: Red is a compelling example of how a thinking theater can simultaneously entertain and educate. And to think that such a fine play should have been elicited by such an overrated painter. Edited July 12, 2011 by N.E. Brigand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Dismissing all of hip-hop as "not art" is incredibly offensive. Sure there's trashy hip-hop just like every other genre of music, and maybe that's all you've ever heard. It's fine to not be interested in learning more about it, but don't assume your ignorance is knowledge. There are millions of people out there who every day are creating and enjoying art in the hip-hop genre who know you are wrong. Edit: Oh, and also, I think Jackson Pollock is a huge hack. Edited July 12, 2011 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Alright, let me define "closer" in my mind. Many people are talking about some very intense endings which I would agree were very intense and exciting. Some people have also brought up what I would call re-entry. For a "closer," I mean a song that starts as a ballad and swells to a big ending or leads into a re-entry. Many have put in their favorites for this and I like all of them, but there hasn't been one in decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 A good closer for me would be to bring back thematic material from earlier in the show and arranged a little bit differently to add excitement and closure to the theme as a whole. It also follows that the drill should, in conjunction with the music, be fast and exciting, but flowing up until the last few sets, where it will also bring closure to the show. You can hear in most time-tested symphonies where the composer brings back thematic motifs in the finale, to give closure to the ideas in the symphony as a whole. Beethoven and Brahms were both geniuses in this regard. A good example also is Tchaikovsky's 5th. You can hear variations of the same motif in all 4 movements. And also as far as motifs go, Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique is a real good example of an "idee fixe", or a "fixed (musical) idea" that is used to express a certain character throughout the piece. In this case, it is the first melody used in the strings in the beginning of the Symphonie, after the woodwinds open up the first two measures. I love fixed musical ideas and thematic material that can be used to give closure to any piece. Other pieces that use totally new thematic material to close a work are good, but I think it brings more emotional impact when you close with a variation on the already-stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Jay-Z is a gigantic ooooosh with a capital D. Hip Hop is not an art form. Alicia Keys made beautiful music out of his stupid rant. The Scouts play the hell out of it and I love it. Is it the best closer ever? Probably not but it's pretty ###### good to me! This is pretty silly. Keys' version is just a derivative knock-off of the original. While I really like what the Scouts have done with it, it would have been really interesting/edgy to see where they could have taken it with JayZ's version instead. Granted that might have been *really* hard to pull off without the right vocalist. But...it could have been cool. And there's no doubt his version is more "authentic". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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