LoveKathyG Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I marched a corps that, at the time, was a part of a loose network of corps. This network was set up to create collaboration among the member corps, share resources to an extent, and bring stability to the member corps that would benefit from the expertise of the stronger corps. Every boat rising on the same time kind of thing. At least, that was the concept. The year after I aged out, I worked parts of the next couple years as a volunteer with my corps. My buddy was hired as staff for a stronger corps in the network. It was not at all uncommon for there to be shuffling between corps in the network during auditions. Kids were told they'd be a better fit here or there. Some heeded the advice. Others chose to stick around. Still others ended up in corps outside this network. All seemed fair enough to me since it was happening before auditions ended. The only part that bothered me a bit was that the Big Dog Corps in the network seemed to end up with the biggest talent for their corps, even when that talent may have started their interest with another corps in the network. From my perspective, this wasn't a frequent enough occurrence to be considered common, but it was also more than just a freak coincidence now and then. This was actually a somewhat common grumble among staff from my corps, and there were always suspicions that there had been heavier recruitment of the big talent from the Big Dog than would be considered neighborly among network corps. More directly to the topic of this thread, I can think of two kids over the years I volunteered who ended being "transferred" from the Big Dog to us a few weeks after move-in. In both cases, my buddy who had become staff at Big Dog called me to let me know that the kid was coming our way and to look after him...help him transition...get him acculturated...etc. (My buddy's call to me was an expression of him being a super caring person. He wasn't calling in any official capacity as a staff member.) The official explanation in both cases was that it had been determined that our corps was a better fit for these kids than was Big Dog. There was no explanation of what "fit" meant or who determined this. In fairness, it is possible that one or both kids determined himself that our corps was a better fit, for whatever reason, but this scenario doesn't seem likely since both had actually paid their Big Dog fees and were sure enough about their decision to actually move in with Big Dog. My buddy is a consummate company man who does not speak out of school, so I chose to not ask for details about the reason for these transfers. But my intuition was that the kids were probably reassigned to our corps and that this was something the kids would not have chosen had things played out the way they wanted. I never heard any more of the story from either of these kids. They both ended up staying through the end of their tour with us. Seemed to be nice enough guys. One came back to us for one more summer. The other, to my knowledge, didn't march another summer anywhere. I can imagine the leadership at Big Dog believing they had done what needed to be done to create a win-win situation. "Talent that wasn't cutting it at Big Dog gets reassigned to a corps that fits their ability." "It isn't fair to Big Dog kids to have their potential be fettered by kids who just can't keep up." "It isn't fair to put a kid in a situation where he can't keep up." The leadership at Big Dog is very clear about their vision and is not afraid to make decisions that are singularly in the service of that vision. It appears they believe they're doing the best thing for their kids, though I do struggle with some of the decisions they make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DITD Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Yeppers. There are a lot of music educators on this board, in various capacities. I'm sure we, as a group, can give a big "YEP!" to that. YEP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) well, this is where I stand: if a kid has a contract that says he has a spot in the line, and he does everything that is being asked to the best of his ability (this includes spending extra time during breaks or in the evenings during spring training to work with the staff to meet expectations), then he should have his spot. if a kid has a contract and is not putting forth 100% effort, then IMO the corps could let him go. Most corps contracts that I've seen (I've seen several) do not guarantee a kid a spot on the field. They only guarantee "a position in the corps" which could mean anything, based on staff determination. At the corps I taught, that was explained well in advance. No one was "guaranteed" a spot in the drill, everyone had to earn it. We freely moved people between drill spots and alternate positions based on attitude, drive, effort, and ability (among other criteria). The contract really only lays out the expectations between the corps and the member. Edited July 16, 2011 by Kamarag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Politics, favoritism, and "string pulling" does happen all the time, that happens in pretty much all activies/jobs, it exists. And while it doesnt happen "all the time" it happens enough to be just plain wrong. Other things that happen all the time: * members get way behind their due paying, go into move-ins still owing a large chunk of change, and the corps finds themselves either a) biting the bullet, letting the kid march, and being out a lot of money, or b) replacing the kid with someone who CAN pay the fees. * members bust their butt to make a corps, and then as the winter goes by the member becomes complacent: their improvement stagnates, and they become more and more behind. Spring rolls around, and the kid isn't ready to perform physically, thus becoming at risk of hurting himself/others. * kids come into camp with the attitude that they're great, the make the corps (thus enforcing/feeding their ego), disregard staff thinking they know better than the instructors, and by the time spring rolls around the staff is fed up/done dealing with them. * a corps gives a kid on the fringe on chance, hoping that they'll put in the time outside of camps to acquire the necessary skills to march the top corps. The kid continually falls short of expectations but the staff continues to extend them opportunities to prove themselves. Spring rolls around, and the kid isn't ready to perform physically, thus becoming at risk of hurting himself/others. * Kids are continually told they're not cutting it and are finally given the ultimatum that they come "in shape" or go home. The kid isn't in shape, and is thus sent to another lower achieving corps in order for the kid to learn the necessary skills. The kid then decides to save face by saying he had no idea this was coming and then bad mouths the top corps so he doesn't appear to be the one at fault. Without knowing the full story of the OP, it's impossible for any of us to really say exactly what happened. This activity revolves around kids and young adults. They often make not-the-best-decisions, and often deflect blame away from themselves and project it onto someone else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Other things that happen all the time: * members get way behind their due paying, go into move-ins still owing a large chunk of change, and the corps finds themselves either a) biting the bullet, letting the kid march, and being out a lot of money, or b) replacing the kid with someone who CAN pay the fees. * members bust their butt to make a corps, and then as the winter goes by the member becomes complacent: their improvement stagnates, and they become more and more behind. Spring rolls around, and the kid isn't ready to perform physically, thus becoming at risk of hurting himself/others. * kids come into camp with the attitude that they're great, the make the corps (thus enforcing/feeding their ego), disregard staff thinking they know better than the instructors, and by the time spring rolls around the staff is fed up/done dealing with them. * a corps gives a kid on the fringe on chance, hoping that they'll put in the time outside of camps to acquire the necessary skills to march the top corps. The kid continually falls short of expectations but the staff continues to extend them opportunities to prove themselves. Spring rolls around, and the kid isn't ready to perform physically, thus becoming at risk of hurting himself/others. * Kids are continually told they're not cutting it and are finally given the ultimatum that they come "in shape" or go home. The kid isn't in shape, and is thus sent to another lower achieving corps in order for the kid to learn the necessary skills. The kid then decides to save face by saying he had no idea this was coming and then bad mouths the top corps so he doesn't appear to be the one at fault. Without knowing the full story of the OP, it's impossible for any of us to really say exactly what happened. This activity revolves around kids and young adults. They often make not-the-best-decisions, and often deflect blame away from themselves and project it onto someone else. it so true with NON paying members..its an epademic in drum corps as well as winter programs...kids feel they want to do it but many never think it through ...so many groups have been stuck..to many think they are entitled and arent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 If you don't know the facts, why start a thread ripping an organization and activity for something you have absolutely no idea if it is true or not? What is the point? What does it accomplish? No doubt: if the OP wasn't 100% confident that the hearsay story she was told was accurate, in the event that they decided to not have any details, why even bother posting it in the first place?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 it so true with NON paying members..its an epademic in drum corps as well as winter programs...kids feel they want to do it but many never think it through ...so many groups have been stuck..to many think they are entitled and arent Yeah, I've seen that happen a lot in winter programs: especially independent groups that don't have the support system like a school booster program (though that's not better either, at least in a school booster program a student might be able to get by without paying because there is other income from other aspects of the HS booster program). I've known of directors who flat out HAD to cut a capable, good-natured kid because the kid both didn't keep up with payments AND didn't work out a payment plan (i.e. they essentially ignored the financial commitment). The organization had to cut the kid and brought in another member who was equally talented and could afford to meet his financial commitment. You know what happens to organizations who aren't diligent like this: when they overlook members not paying their fees? They fold because they don't have the financial means. It's too bad for the members, but they shouldn't have committed if they couldn't pay the fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubaJon Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 You know what happens to organizations who aren't diligent like this: when they overlook members not paying their fees? They fold because they don't have the financial means. It's too bad for the members, but they shouldn't have committed if they couldn't pay the fees. but then of course what about those who have been saving and saving and then boom, there car breaks down, or something like that. What should a corps do then, continue to run as a business, or be a little more ethical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 but then of course what about those who have been saving and saving and then boom, there car breaks down, or something like that. What should a corps do then, continue to run as a business, or be a little more ethical. "Ethical" is an interesting word choice: someone running a business would say it's not ethical for them to put the financial well-being of their organization in danger so someone not willing/able to meet their financial obligations. To borrow a favorite movie phrase, it is the organization's ethical responsibility to look out for the needs of the many, vs the needs of the few (or the one). FWIW, depending on the corps' financial situation, the norm seems to be that if a member discloses their financial situation upfront, and works out a plan to pay off their fees that is both convenient for them and satisfies the corps, then the corps if OK with them marching. Also, if something comes up like you say above, and the member is a member in good standing (and discloses their situation ASAP to the corps), and sets up a payment plan with the corps, then a corps will allow them to march the season. What is also not uncommon is for a situation like you say above happens, the member in question doesn't say anything to the corps until their unpaid fees start piling up, and the corps loses faith that the member is willing to pay. Like I said, this is an activity of young people, and while many corps members are responsible there are many others who are not. Corps have to look out for the needs of the many (i.e. the organization), not for the needs of the few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 random thought... how cool would a 200 lb elephant be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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