soccerguy315 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Which is why in my high school groups I wirelessly mic the woodwind section leaders. Why don't you mic the freshmen woodwinds? Is it because you are trying to make the sound that the judges hear not representative of what your group actually sounds like? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 ...Attending a drum corps show is not a privilege, it's a business transaction. I pay money, they let me in the gate. If the product is something I am interested in, I will continue to pay money to be let in the gate. If not, I won't. All intrinsic issues of "supporting the kids" to one side, that business model is the thing DCI needs to focus on the most, because if they don't, there will be no kids in DCI. There will be no DCI. Here's the fundamental difference between us. While somewhat skeptical, I'm willing to give DCI a try again. Your mind however is closed and locked on my point of view. That's a curious way to look at this. I, a fan of drum corps since the 70s who loves modern drum corps electronics and all, am the one with the closed mind. I hope you will give it a try again. I hope in Allentown you'll judge drum corps for what it is and not for what you want it to be. Because you're going to hear electronic amplification and sound. Electronic sounds are going to be the feature in parts of the programs. So if you want to view this as a pure business transaction, a purchase in which you feel drum corps owes you something more than the presentation of that night's programs, you just might be disappointed. Don't let that be the case. Don't let any preconceived expectations obscure all the greatness on the field. I genuinely hope you have a wonderful time in Allentown. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) great rebuttal. let's keep chasing fans away. brilliant business strategy There are some customers not worth having. They cost your organization more than they return. My brother's mother in law was told by a major retailer not to shop there any more. That she is a wealthy woman who spent oodles there wasn't enough. This store tracked her returns and informed her that her business is no longer welcome. They made the calculation that her purchases cost the firm money. This store isn't unique. The Wall Street Journal has written about this practice by others. My preference would be for all legacy fans to continue to be fans. I also believe that many legacy fans cost DCI more than they return. Their negativity hurts the reputation of an activity already struggling for a positive reputation. I doubt they buy enough tickets or t-shirts to offset the discount they inspire. No, I wouldn't chase them away. But yes, I wish some would just go away. Friend like that DCI doesn't need. HH Edited July 28, 2011 by glory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 There is no "correct outdoor technique" for a marimba. It is a concert instrument with limited projection. Taken out of an acoustically advantageous setting, it requires amplification to achieve the true tone and sonority of these instruments. Mallet production over the last decade has been moving towards getting the best possible sound out of this instrument, and they have achieved that by using light shafts with a heavy cores wrapped in very thick yarn. This produces a very round sound that lingers and creates a lush and almost tangible envelopment of texture. However, this means that it doesn't project over a ramming drumline, and thick brass scoring. To deny amplification to keyboard instruments, means denying designers and performers the ability to produce the best possible tone quality of an instrument, and instead requires them to use staccato mallets and technique that produces a louder (yet harsh and unsatisfactory) tone. To say that amplification is a short cut to achievement is being disingenuous. It is ABSOLUTELY NOT possible to achieve the best possible tone quality of a marimba in an outdoor situation which can compete with a drumline and hornline. Absolutely, 100% not possible. DCA doesn't do it, and pre-amp DCI didn't do it, period. If you don't believe that, try to take any of the mallets being used today in DCI/WGI groups and try to use them in DCA. As someone who has designed and instructed for DCA groups, DCI groups and WGI groups front ensembles, I am telling you it just doesn't work. It's a completely different approach, with less than ideal results. if it had been limited to just amping the pit, i'd be right with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Personally, I LOVE the way the Cadets are using electronics this year. For the most part this is what I wanted to see with these instruments, and with amplification. I wanted to hear analog sounds and sound effects that were injected into the show at the right times to help bring some realism to the show theme. What they do with the angelic and demonic sounds, the airy/voxy pads, the ghost-like whispers and effects, the organ, and even the vocal chant...all that stuff is really effective and I love it. Yeah, they like to use the bass synth too, and perhaps, like other corps, they overuse it to some degree. At any rate, the show is amazing and this was the type of show I was waiting for in terms of electronics. Honestly, I have more of a problem with the whole TOC concept, issues that relate to keeping corps alive and developing new drum corps, issues that hurt funding, and other stuff like that. I feel that those issues present greater challenges to the activity that electronics. I agree with Jeff Ream and others that DCI needs to figure out how they want to judge the A&E aspects of today's shows. It's not OK to overpower the corps or to have unacceptable balance levels, and it's not OK to have problems with your equipment. I still wonder about placing those amps backfield or in the end zones. :-) Maybe that would help, with very small amps up front for percussion amplification only. my whole argument anymore is the balance issues. for an audio/visual activity, if you're charging that kind of money and the audio suffers, you're risking future business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 There are some customers not worth having. They cost your organization more than they return. My brother's mother in law was told by a major retailer not to shop there any more. That she is a wealthy woman who spent oodles there wasn't enough. This store tracked her returns and informed her that her business is no longer welcome. They made the calculation that her purchases cost the firm money. This store isn't unique. The Wall Street Journal has written about this practice by others. My preference would be for all legacy fans to continue to be fans. I also believe that many legacy fans cost DCI more than they return. Their negativity hurts the reputation of an activity already struggling for a positive reputation. I doubt they buy enough tickets or t-shirts to offset the discount they inspire. No, I wouldn't chase them away. But yes, I wish some would just go away. Friend like that DCI doesn't need. HH well, then if you keep chasing all of them off, DCI will be in a world of hurt. yes some will never accept electronics. but many, many more of us wish the sound issues would be fixed, and if not, severely whacked by the judging community until they are. there's no reason why 90% of the live audience at finals should not be able to have decent sound 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 if it had been limited to just amping the pit, i'd be right with you ...and in my opinion, they're different issues. Amplification is about optimizing existing instrumentation, and Electronics is about codifying the use of additional instruments. I support both, but I can respect those who draw the line at using only amplification and not electronics. In my opinion, if you choose to use mallet instruments, they MUST be amplified, or not use them at all. I would rather see drum corps use NO mallet instruments, rather than use them without amplification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHdork Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 <there's no reason why 90% of the live audience at finals should not be able to have decent sound > Nail...meet hammer... Jeff, your great point also goes to the building acoustics...but that, as we all know, is an entirely different kettle of fish... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 there's no reason why 90% of the live audience at finals should not be able to have decent sound Not true Jeff - there is a reason.... The collective egos of the folks that brought us A&E will never admit a mistake and never reverse a decision. And that's the reason why 90% of the audience at finals, and any other show for that matter, will not be able to have decent sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 That's a curious way to look at this. I, a fan of drum corps since the 70s who loves modern drum corps electronics and all, am the one with the closed mind. I believe I explained that.... I hope you will give it a try again. I hope in Allentown you'll judge drum corps for what it is and not for what you want it to be. Because you're going to hear electronic amplification and sound. Electronic sounds are going to be the feature in parts of the programs. So if you want to view this as a pure business transaction, a purchase in which you feel drum corps owes you something more than the presentation of that night's programs, you just might be disappointed. Don't let that be the case. Don't let any preconceived expectations obscure all the greatness on the field. I genuinely hope you have a wonderful time in Allentown. HH I like to view it as a night of drum corps, something that, like you, I have been involved with most of my life - since the late 60s, in fact. But it is not a "privilege" as you charactarize it. I don't earn the right to attend through some trial by ordeal, I pay money and I am allowed in. That's a business transaction and anyone can do it. Strip all the romanticism away and that's what it is. All DCI owes me is admission to the stadium when I pay, and once I have paid I owe them nothing in return. I am under no obligation to come back, praise the product or be a cheerleader for them. As a paying customer I will put my money into transactions that i feel are worth it. DCI hasn't been for a long time now. That is a direct result of the changes they made to the activity. The fact that I have a history with drum corps means I have an emotional attachment to it and will be involved in calling for changes when something goes off the rails. My closed wallet has been a form of protest all these years and I notified DCI of that fact when I made the decision. But I am willing to give it one more try, and thank you for your well wishes for Allentown. I'll let you know what I think. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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