JimF-LowBari Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) It's funny you say that. Because in Atlanta, I (a 31-year-old) was sitting next to three teenagers (juniors/seniors in high school) and they weren't the least bit interested in the synth sounds. The whole time, they were raving about this percussion line and that horn sound. The only thing they ever said about the synths/samples was to complain a couple of times about sounds that didn't fit the show. Oh c'mon they only looked young, we all know gross generalzations (still remember that term) made on DCP by people who were not at shows are the real truth. For those who can't remember gross generalization = broad paint brush. Edited August 1, 2011 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) if they got free training, it doesnt show 7 years later I didn't say it was good training. The sponsors aren't going to tell you at the training that it's a bad idea to use their products if you're going to try to mix 100 acoustic instruments with 10 miked ones and 2 electronic ones, on a football field, using two $500 PA speakers. They're going to say, "we offer outdoor solutions for all budgets". I'm sure the training was mostly about miking keyboards and mixing in synths, and not about balancing the 80 brass behind you because that's never going to happen well. To the extent they discussed it, it was probably in terms of "you need to mike everything" which is why we got the brass amping proposal the same year as the synth proposal. Edited August 1, 2011 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendy328 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 While I'm glad there are experts on this board and in DCI, my personal opinion is that I go to a drum corps show to see what human beings can do well. It's amazing to see an exposed show executed immaculately. It's amazing to hear a crisp, clear drumline throwing it down. It's amazing to hear a unified hornline running licks together. It's amazing to watch a beautiful guard perform as one with passion. Yes, I'm a purist. However, I can see all of the theatrics, amplifications and tricks in plenty of other places. Drum Corps used to be the one place where I could enjoy viewing 'experts' in these other 'basic' skills. I miss that. I also wonder whose pocket DCI is after. If it's the alums, who have the support money and offspring to march, from what I've heard they are not reaching them with these new approaches. If it's the young ones, I don't know. Other than 'band geeks', their family and friends, what teenager that you know would sit through a drum and bugle corps show? My college-aged son certainly would not. I'd love to hear other's thoughts on this. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 So you go around calling all the corps bands then? It's been known to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 It's funny you say that. Because in Atlanta, I (a 31-year-old) was sitting next to three teenagers (juniors/seniors in high school) and they weren't the least bit interested in the synth sounds. The whole time, they were raving about this percussion line and that horn sound. The only thing they ever said about the synths/samples was to complain a couple of times about sounds that didn't fit the show. Ask yourself. Has anyone walked out of a DCI competition talking about "that great synth that so-and-so used" or "the awesome pre-recorded music that opened so-and-so's show"? The only exception to this rule that I've heard to date is people liking the "chant" that starts and ends the Cadets show this year. Otherwise, the best people can do is to ignore those sounds and try to enjoy the brass and percussion (imagine that--at a Drum and Bugle show?). Just about everyone around me was complaining about synthetic sounds from the field. I know it's anecdotal, but is anyone REALLY getting excited about synth sounds? This is the kind of post that DCI should REALLY be reading. I'm coming to the conclusion that there are three types of people that are in favour of or promoting electonics: 1 - the DCI sycophants for whom DCI can do no wrong 2 - the rules cabal that voted them in 3 - the folks who sell the #### things 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 While I'm glad there are experts on this board and in DCI, my personal opinion is that I go to a drum corps show to see what human beings can do well. It's amazing to see an exposed show executed immaculately. It's amazing to hear a crisp, clear drumline throwing it down. It's amazing to hear a unified hornline running licks together. It's amazing to watch a beautiful guard perform as one with passion. Yes, I'm a purist. However, I can see all of the theatrics, amplifications and tricks in plenty of other places. Drum Corps used to be the one place where I could enjoy viewing 'experts' in these other 'basic' skills. I miss that. I also wonder whose pocket DCI is after. If it's the alums, who have the support money and offspring to march, from what I've heard they are not reaching them with these new approaches. If it's the young ones, I don't know. Other than 'band geeks', their family and friends, what teenager that you know would sit through a drum and bugle corps show? My college-aged son certainly would not. I'd love to hear other's thoughts on this. I think you're bang on. To give DCI credit, I think they did realize there was a problem with falling attendance and folding corps, but their approach to correct the issue was superficial - bringing in what they thought would be shiny toys. This is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The problem is the financial mountain that corps have to surmount every year to stay alive or worse - to start up. As has been said by many folks many times - that's down to the touring model of drum corps. The growth of small circuits and regional championships feeding to a national/international champoinship is more sustainable, far more sensible and will promote the growth of the activity far more than a "Nature Boy" clip or a few seconds of synthetic accordian notes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskl3rings Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 In the world of competitive sports/entertainment changes to the rules are made to accomplish two things. Make the end product more entertaining so as to attract more fans and to protect the participants. Baseball has changed very little in its history, but what changes have been made were to make it easier to hit home runs. Why? Because fans love to see home runs! Almost all the changes in football have been made to make easier for the offence to score touchdowns. Why? Because fans love high scoring games! Also both leagues support and encourage lower levels of play from Pop Warner and Little League to Arena Football and the Minor Leagues. Why? To create a continuing flow of new fans! Rule changes made by DCI have done nothing to increase the fan base and in fact have had the opposite effect! I have a feeling fan reaction to any rule change proposal is even considered in the final decision. Also, DCI has done nothing to encourage the lower levels of the activity. Sadly DC will continue to shrink if nothing is done to rectify this situation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Slightly off the current topic, but I don't think this rises to the level of being worthy of a new thread, but the electronics balance was much different for the Atlanta webcast that for previous ones. I haven't watched all the shows from Atlanta yet, but I wanted to say this: When I've seen Phantom live and also on past webcasts, I love the show, except for the synth in and around the Mozart Requiem. For part of it the synth totally covered up the mello section feature, and then there's another part immediately following where the synth sounds are just terribly cheesy--I think it's totally the patches at fault, but it sounds like Mannheim Steamroller (and I don't mean that as a compliment). For the Atlanta show, the Phantom PAs were placed immediately audience side of the field-facing mikes, which meant that as far as I could tell, the synth was totally inaudible for the show, and I just have to say, WOW, that makes a HUGE improvement in those sections for me. I was of course thrilled to actually hear the mellos for the first time, but I honestly expected silence for the following part, but what do you know, there's a pit part going on there that I had never heard before! And the whole sound of that section of the show was just so much better. It just kills me that even in shows like Phantom's or SCV's where the synth adds very little if anything to the sound and is rarely featured, they still are using it. I just... don't get it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Rule changes made by DCI have done nothing to increase the fan base and in fact have had the opposite effect! I have a feeling fan reaction to any rule change proposal is even considered in the final decision. Also, DCI has done nothing to encourage the lower levels of the activity. Sadly DC will continue to shrink if nothing is done to rectify this situation. If you read the rules proposals surrounding electronics, the writer of the proposals says in them that it will attract new audiences because it will show that "MUSIC IS COOL". So at least one person said he believed that (even as he admitted that 40% of the audience would immediately hate it--but that we would get over it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Rule changes made by DCI have done nothing to increase the fan base and in fact have had the opposite effect! I have a feeling fan reaction to any rule change proposal is even considered in the final decision. There is no data that proves any impact from rule changes. Also, DCI has done nothing to encourage the lower levels of the activity. Why should this be their priority at all? The funny thing is that the argument from many in the activity is that DCI leans too much in favour of smaller corps. Sadly DC will continue to shrink if nothing is done to rectify this situation. Look, the number of kids auditioning for top 12 corps is not decreasing and for some higher than ever. The problem is on the fault of the guys who are directors of caption heads of corps that are not making relationships with these corps to be right at their auditions and camps to immediately embrace those that do not make the cut. Business is business. If they can't attract the kids, if they can't attract the staff, if they can't attract the partners, if they can't generate the financial support that they need... it is entirely their fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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