Cache_Money Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 It means watching a video doesn't really help to see what is going on in a drum corps show. Pretty simple. This statement makes no sense. Why does DCI even have FN then? Why put out DVDs? You really think that watching a show on vid "doesn't really help to see what is going on" in that show? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOOHOO Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 This statement makes no sense. Why does DCI even have FN then? Why put out DVDs? You really think that watching a show on vid "doesn't really help to see what is going on" in that show? You think it does? The experience of a live drum corps cannot be recreated, and does change the perspective of how effective a show can be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrnguy500 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I don't think you are an idiot. I just don't see how watching Fan Network helps you make a decision in going to a show or not. No need to overreact. Yeah, I did overreact. But really, what is the Fan Network for but to watch shows and understand them? It's a preview really. I think watching shows online does help you to understand show. I mean it is a visually based activity. If I watch what could be the top 12 this year and I only enjoy maybe 3 of those shows, I don't see the use in spending money and time in driving just to see finals. It's not worth it to me. And for me that is really sad since I usually want to go to finals without a thought. I know some people go to finals just to see their corps. That's their priority, but for me it's about the whole experience and I know I would just be annoyed after finals this year. The proportion of shows I like to dislike is gradually shifting. I could probably watch '03 and like 10/12 shows. 2008 it was probably 6/12. This year its even lower. Not the right direction for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyTenor Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 First of all, we can eliminate "everyone" and "all" from this discussion. No one believes that everyone is against electronics, and no one believes everyone is for electronics. So, can we get ovet that? Unfortunately, there is no empirical statistics to indicate if people like, dislike, or are indifferent to electronics. All we can really do is espouse our own opinions, theories and other anecdotal information to try and convince others that our opinion is more factual than your opinion. That said... I feel that so far the use of electronics is abominable. A lot of that lies in the directional characteristics of speakers in general. While the acoustic instruments fill the stadium with sound, the electronic sounds are pointed right at a specific area, and the residual effect is goo or no musical contribution at all the closer you get to the end zones. The acoustics of domes only exacerbate the problem. Some of the problem lies in the different acoustics of every indoor and outdoor stadium on the tour. What's missing from the equation can be simplified in two words: sound check. Every rock band, jazz band, electronica band, does a sound check at every venue they perform at, and they don't do it 5 minutes before curtain. Each venue requires a different set-up and a different amount of time to achieve that set-up, and then they still have to tweak it once the seats are full. As someone else said in an earlier comment, these instruments were supposed to come in tried and tested to the corps idiom based on instructors experience using them in the band world. Why are we having to experience a learning curve then? We were told it was a no brainer, that the transistion would be seamless. I will admit, and I have stated this opinion on several occasions, that I don't care for electronics in band or drum corps. There seems to be a never ending need to tinker with something that already works. And before anyone jumps on the valveless/piston/piston-slide/piston-rotor/2 piston/3 piston bandwagon, none of those alterations to the brass choir changed the general nature of the choir or it's acoustic properties. Adding drums to the tenor line didn't change the basic concept of melodic drums, though the snare sound was altered with kevlar heads. Still, it's a snare drum. Keyboards added a voice, but still retained the acoustic sound of mallet striking key. The addition of electronics, and to a certain extent amplification of the pit, significantly alters the timbre of the ensemble. If you weren't there when they were introduced to the band world, it significantly impacted that genre, too. Innovative instructors and arrangers have produced incredible effects for decades using acoustic devices to produce the needed sounds. I'll use the helicopter effect in 1991 SCV "Miss Saigon" as a popular example. Why dumb it down? What happened to innovation? Pressing a key on a pre-sampled sound is not innovation. It's laziness. Someone also mentioned the amplification of brass and why it's needed if the rest of the brass are behind you at FFF. You know what happened in the past, right? There was no solo when the brass was at FFF. Who needed a solo when the performers were pinning your ears back? The same logic was used to justify amplification of the pit. You can't hear the pit when the brass is pushing forward in a company front in a stirring conclusion to the show. So don't write key parts. That when they do their cymbal work. Think Scouts at the end of Malaguena. Think Cavaliers at the end of Planets with the red cymbals. The bottom line, IMO, is that if electronics dissappeared in 2012, there would be no meaningful impact to corps shows. Now, think if brass or field percussion dissappeared. BIG impact. Sensationalistic postings and responses won't convince anyone, and won't lead to solutions to the problem of balance and goo. We have an aooportunity here to try and come upwith suggestions and solutions to share with the corps' staffs. Because, as much as I hate to admit it, they're here to stay. They've never rescinded a rule before, and I don't think they'll start now. Garry in Vegas 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrnguy500 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 You think it does? The experience of a live drum corps cannot be recreated, and does change the perspective of how effective a show can be. Yes, nothing beats a live show. I'm happy just to watch hornlines warm up at shows let alone see them march. Recordings don't give 100% to the viewer but it is close. It's the same idea as watching live theatre versus watching a recording. I really enjoyed seeing Phantom of the Opera live but I still like watching a video of the musical too. So, in a sense, I should still be entertained by a recording even if it's not the real deal. It's extremely unlikely (for me)to suddenly like a show because I saw it live. If anything I'll say "whoa, that had some power to it" or "that drill was neat from this perspective." I'm not going to think that the show concept is way better by seeing it in person. And if staff are designing shows that can only be enjoyed from a live perspective then they are not thinking well of the fans who purchase DVD's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I feel that so far the use of electronics is abominable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) Exaggeration. Neither the sound nor its potential "totally changed" what we hear. The horns and the drums are still brilliant and thrilling. Like so many assertions in this argument (which is why I'm sorry for singling you out), this doesn't stand up to scrutiny or logic. You misread my point, and I hesitate to clarify for fear of being further insulted, but I will try anyway. The potential is there in the rules now for the sound to change drastically. Some corps are already pretty far down that path, doubling brass parts or covering them up with synth. In five years, I wouldn't be surprised to see some corps go without tubas entirely. But whether you or I or the designers like some sound or hate it, the important question is: do electronics bring in more people than they drive out? In terms of audience, I haven't heard an argument that electronics attract very many people to shows, but there's plenty of evidence they are driving people away. In terms of corps members, it's nice for synth/piano players to feel like there's an option for them in drum corps, but on the other hand, if I were a mello player in Phantom this year I'd be pretty upset that one synth player covered up my 16-person section during our one feature. If I were the parents of a mello player in Phantom this year, I'd be furious. In terms of designers, I'm sure they love to have all the flexibility in the world. The argument has been made that without electronics, the best designers in the world would leave the activity for other pursuits. I don't really believe that, but maybe it's true. So, glory, I'm curious if you have any thoughts on the issue. If you're just planning to continue trashing people for talking about it, then please don't bother to respond. Edited July 29, 2011 by skywhopper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 First of all, we can eliminate "everyone" and "all" from this discussion. No one believes that everyone is against electronics, and no one believes everyone is for electronics. So, can we get ovet that?Unfortunately, there is no empirical statistics to indicate if people like, dislike, or are indifferent to electronics. All we can really do is espouse our own opinions, theories and other anecdotal information to try and convince others that our opinion is more factual than your opinion. That said... I feel that so far the use of electronics is abominable. [...] Superb post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The bottom line, IMO, is that if electronics dissappeared in 2012, there would be no meaningful impact to corps shows. Agreed, however my belief is that there would be a meaningful impact to the attendance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Bumbles bounce! Snow cone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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