Liahona Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 With all due respect, is this really that big of a deal? So many of these rules regarding the American flag (gasp, a lowercase f!!!) are so unbelievably archaic. In 1790, I'm sure it was important to have someone guarding the flag. But at DCI Finals over two centuries later, if there's no guard for 15 minutes, is that really all that offensive? As for no spike or eagle, the "Flag Code" states that anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag" is enough to constitute the flag. In other words, if it's enough to give off the impression that it's an American flag, then it's an American flag. So what does it matter if there's no spike or eagle on top? The point still gets across, right? I can think of so many things I witnessed and heard at Finals that were more offensive than some set of antiquated rules that are, in my opinion, just a waste of extraneous effort. I would like to point out to you this section of the United states Code concerning "RESPECT" of the flag... "No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor. (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property. (b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise. © The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free. (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general. (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way. (f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling. (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature. (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything. (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown. (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart. (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 With all due respect, is this really that big of a deal? So many of these rules regarding the American flag (gasp, a lowercase f!!!) are so unbelievably archaic. In 1790, I'm sure it was important to have someone guarding the flag. But at DCI Finals over two centuries later, if there's no guard for 15 minutes, is that really all that offensive?As for no spike or eagle, the "Flag Code" states that anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag" is enough to constitute the flag. In other words, if it's enough to give off the impression that it's an American flag, then it's an American flag. So what does it matter if there's no spike or eagle on top? The point still gets across, right? I can think of so many things I witnessed and heard at Finals that were more offensive than some set of antiquated rules that are, in my opinion, just a waste of extraneous effort. It is rather ironic that you began your posting with a phrase containing the word respect; because that is exactly what is being discussed in this thread. The most honorable position in any situation is to be the person carrying the United States flag; it should be guarded not only in real combat (which by the way when the flag bearer goes down it is an honor for a soldier to lay down his weapon, pick up the flag, and continue moving forward into battle), but the U.S. flag should also be guarded in spirit with ceremonial dignity when on display in non-combat situations. To call this act of respect archaic, antiquated, trite, or any other terminology which belittles the U.S. flag is to symbolically spit in the face of the millions of people who have laid their lives on the line to give you the freedom to disagree with me on this matter. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room_101 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I would like to point out to you this section of the United states Code concerning "RESPECT" of the flag... "No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor. (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property. (b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise. © The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free. (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general. (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way. (f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling. (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature. (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything. (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown. (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart. (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning." ...okay... a) Did you see a corps displaying their flag with the union down? b) Did you see it touch the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise? c) Did you see it carried flat or horizontally? d) Did you see it used as bedding or drapery? Was it ever festooned? e) Did you see it stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way? f) Did you see it used as a covering for a ceiling? g) Did you see it marked with any insignia, letter, word, etc? h) Did you see it used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything? i) Did you see it used for advertising purposes? j) Did you see it used as a costume or athletic uniform? k) Did you see it flown in such a condition that it was no longer a fitting emblem for display? If you answered yes to any of these questions, then we'll talk. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 It is rather ironic that you began your posting with a phrase containing the word respect; because that is exactly what is being discussed in this thread. The most honorable position in any situation is to be the person carrying the United States flag; it should be guarded not only in real combat (which by the way when the flag bearer goes down it is an honor for a soldier to lay down his weapon, pick up the flag, and continue moving forward into battle), but the U.S. flag should also be guarded in spirit with ceremonial dignity when on display in non-combat situations. To call this act of respect archaic, antiquated, trite, or any other terminology which belittles the U.S. flag is to symbolically spit in the face of the millions of people who have laid their lives on the line to give you the freedom to disagree with me on this matter. Thank you Stu for your post. I was really troubled by those comments of the other poster as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbandguy Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I'm sorry, but I personally find it totally ridiculous that someone would try to use the American flag and how it should be displayed in THEIR opinion as the basis for an attack on the G8. I mean really...we get that you don't like the G8, but to try to infer that these corps are showing disrespect for America because they didn't display the flag exactly like YOU wanted them to...and then it turns out the code does NOT specify things like an eagle or spear. Next time why not just say I DON'T LIKE THE PINKO, COMMIE G8 and leave the American flag out of it. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 In addition, during the parade, a Canadian-based corps passed carrying both the U.S. and Canadian flag-with the Canadian flag clearly standing higher. It was my understanding, as well as the lady standing next to me who commented on the same thing, that even though they are from Canada, in the U.S. THAT flag should stand higher. I wrote to DCI some months after the 9/11 attack and suggested that perhaps it was time to bring honor guards back to the field, as is done in DCA and with nearly every Alumni corps I have ever seen performing in exhbitions. I was never given the priviege of a reply. If you were representing a U.S. based corps, and involved in a parade within China, Venezuela, etc..., and carrying the U.S. flag as well as that country's flag, would carry that country's flag higher than the U.S. flag? Hope not!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standrews Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Thank you Stu for your post. I was really troubled by those comments of the other poster as well. Oh how they do not understand the ironic naive hypocrisy in which the U.S. flag is actually the symbol that gives them the ability to hold their various opinions on trivializing the respect of U.S. flag. But, this is the U.S. Where all opinions should be open for debate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esch Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I'm sorry, but I personally find it totally ridiculous that someone would try to use the American flag and how it should be displayed in THEIR opinion as the basis for an attack on the G8. I mean really...we get that you don't like the G8, but to try to infer that these corps are showing disrespect for America because they didn't display the flag exactly like YOU wanted them to...and then it turns out the code does NOT specify things like an eagle or spear. Next time why not just say I DON'T LIKE THE PINKO, COMMIE G8 and leave the American flag out of it. I think the point is that the G8 represents the epitome of drum corps. Flag code is flag code, and even during the 70's post-Watergate era was observed as proper presentation of the colors. Either do it right or don't do it at all; corps at the G8 level should know. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) I'm sorry, but I personally find it totally ridiculous that someone would try to use the American flag and how it should be displayed in THEIR opinion as the basis for an attack on the G8. I mean really...we get that you don't like the G8, but to try to infer that these corps are showing disrespect for America because they didn't display the flag exactly like YOU wanted them to...and then it turns out the code does NOT specify things like an eagle or spear. Next time why not just say I DON'T LIKE THE PINKO, COMMIE G8 and leave the American flag out of it. Fair point in that perhaps in hindsight the poster should not have used in his criticism the phrase... " G8 Corps ". That said, perhaps likewise your reply should not have used the phrase " Commie G8 " to refer to the G7. There is nothing socialist, nor communist in the least about the G7, imo. ( Fascist perhaps, depending upon ones views of their beliefs, tactics, personal perceptions of themselves in relationship to others etc ). 'Just wanted to chime in with my observation that the G7 does not believe in a sense of unified community, self sacrifice for the good of the whole, etc or much of anything at all to do with the beliefs, values, etc inherent in the philosophy of Communism. ( not that I'm a proponent of Communism here, mind you.' Just wanted to point this out, thats all. ) The G7 are " PINKO, COMMIE " ?.... Not a chance. Edited August 21, 2011 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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